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Subject: 2 New Steam Expansions: Steam Sun & Steam London rss

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jim b
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I was in my FLGS today, and saw a new expansion available for Steam.

Actually, I was purchasing a map for AoS, but to my surprise, it had this seal -

Sun/London Expansion for Steam

Why - Jonathan Clebourne Lawrence - we hardly knew you!

I eagerly opened the envelope to confirm -

Sun/London Expansion for Steam

The expansion includes 2 full games for Steam - "London", and "Sun".

Bezier's London Expansion for Steam

London is a fairly typical Stream expansion scenario, set in the London metropolitan area. It does add some new mechanics involving Unions and overtime fees.

London Expansion for Steam

Here's a little better look at the additional pieces, which supplement Steam's own equipment -

London Expansion for Steam, close-up

This particular expansion is famous for its intricate use of 4-exit town tiles, and it's great to see Steam's tiles rise to the challenge.

Bezier's Sun Expansion for Steam

Sun is a more unusual expansion for Steam. Sun is actually set on Sol, and involves mining energy through sunspots, solar flares, restationing, and so on.

The starting map has no cities at all, very unusual for a Steam expansion - but Jonathan Clebourne Lawrence has always pushed the edge of what is possible with Steam.

Sun Expansion for Steam

So, my friends - another set of expansions are available from Bezier - game on!

I've pictured the available pieces - the rest of the expansion uses the Steam track tiles, Steam player tokens, Steam scoring tracks (Income/Expenses), Steam supply system, etc.

JC - THANKS!
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Gabe Alvaro
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Re: The New Expansion
jimb wrote:
I was in my FLGS today

EndGame?
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J C Lawrence
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Re: The New Expansion
jimb wrote:
Jonathan Clebourne Lawrence


Ahem. Nope.

I noticed the Steam-rules sticker on retail copies of Age of Steam:London/Sun some months back (at Endgame as happens) and approached Ted about them. Uhh, I never did any Steam rules! He asked me to look into doing Steam rules. I did for some weeks and then came back to him, Nope, sorry, can't be done without a full rewrite. He said he'd stop using the stickers on my maps...
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Pasta Batman
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Re: The New Expansion
Nice pics and all, but how about an actual review?
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jim b
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Re: The New Expansion
This is a SCOOP - you get the pics, I get some geek gold - no one gets hurt.
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Jeff Michaud
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Re: The New Expansion
jimb wrote:
I was in my FLGS today, and saw a new expansion available for Steam.

new? looks like it's been out for 3 years, see

Age of Steam Expansion: Sun / London
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Bill Bennett
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Re: The New Expansion
jimb wrote:
...I think they'll be ordering more copies of this excellent Steam expansion, though.


You're a bad, bad man. Thanks for making me laugh out loud.
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Pasta Batman
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Re: The New Expansion
An old Bezier game with a 'Steam' sticker is a 'scoop'? Ok, I get the joke. But I really would like to read a review of these maps with the Steam rules.
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Gunther Schmidl
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Re: The New Expansion
And with the extra straight track tiles from Steam Barons, there may no longer be a hindrance in playing Sun with Steam...
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Gareth
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Re: The New Expansion
While I appreciate the joke, I can't help but feel that posting this as an actual review was maybe a little misguided. You should at least add something to indicate that in fact the promised rules for use with Steam don't exist on the Bezier site (and, according to the designer, may never exist) and advise caution to people considering a purchase. Particularly for the Sun map (of all the maps, this is the one I see having the most issues with being adapted to Steam).

Some people who don't know the history (and there are a great many) may come here, take this "review" at face value and make a very poorly informed purchase. That doesn't benefit anyone.

Along with poking fun, it would have been nice if there had actually been some substance here. I usually like my reviewers to have actually played the game and there would have been some real interest in seeing how London and or Sun actually played with a naive translation to Steam (I suspect not well, but I have nothing more than my gut to go by). If you do give it a go, please update and let us know how it went.
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Gareth
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Re: The New Expansion
I have no problem with you posting it. I do, however, take issue with it being posted in the guise of a legitimate review.
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jim b
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Re: The New Expansion
I did acknowledge that the setup rules don't exist, but JC did that long before I got to it. (I'd warned him in email before I posted, so he would have an opportunity to nix any misunderstandings.)
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Randall Bart
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Re: The New Expansion
I am sure Alspach will refund your money if you tell him you bought a package that says there are Steam rules on his web site but they are not there.
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J C Lawrence
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Re: The New Expansion
Barticus88 wrote:
I am sure Alspach will refund your money if you tell him you bought a package that says there are Steam rules on his web site but they are not there.


Jim knew there were no Steam rules for the maps going in.
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jim b
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Re: The New Expansion
clearclaw wrote:
Jim knew there were no Steam rules for the maps going in.

I purchased this purely as an Age of Steam expansion. (*)

Afterward, in the car - I was getting ready to open it up at a stoplight (so I could look at the rules while I got a bite to eat). But, I saw the seal, and knew I had a collector's item. :-)

So I came home, took photos, and opened it much more carefully - all under the watchful eye of dear Uncle Martin. I also promptly email'd the Killer of All Fun, to make sure he could disavow this blasphemy.

(*) But, I could have bought it as a Steam expansion - and everything I said originally would still have followed. Whether that's a joke, or simply serious - it all depends on your point-of-view. That's how it was labelled, there was a package insert as pictured, etc etc - all branded as a Steam expansion.

It also says it runs with "Warfrog's Age of Steam", btw. This guy maybe should lead the RNC for a while.
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Jack Neal
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Re: The New Expansion
jimb wrote:
... Killer of All Fun ...


#pepsicoatinglcd#
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Dave Kudzma
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Re: The New Expansion
clearclaw wrote:
jimb wrote:
Jonathan Clebourne Lawrence


Ahem. Nope.

I noticed the Steam-rules sticker on retail copies of Age of Steam:London/Sun some months back (at Endgame as happens) and approached Ted about them. Uhh, I never did any Steam rules! He asked me to look into doing Steam rules. I did for some weeks and then came back to him, Nope, sorry, can't be done without a full rewrite. He said he'd stop using the stickers on my maps...


There are no rules for any of the Steam Brothers maps either and they work exactly the same with NO MODIFICATIONS.

I'm sure anyone with greater math skills than I could calculate some "significant" number that would point toward potential incompatibility; but every AoS map I use with Steam works just fine.

So sure, you have some special rules; nothing that cannot be tweaked into the Steam system. If not, I guess I'll just use AoS rules; which ironically can easily be done by printing the charts here for free and using Steam bits.
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J C Lawrence
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Re: The New Expansion
locusshifter wrote:
There are no rules for any of the Steam Brothers maps either and they work exactly the same with NO MODIFICATIONS.


Exactly the same? No. I accept that you may not be prepared or able to see the differences.

Quote:
I'm sure anyone with greater math skills than I could calculate some "significant" number that would point toward potential incompatibility; but every AoS map I use with Steam works just fine.


I am confident that what you define as just fine is very different than what I similarly expect.

Quote:
So sure, you have some special rules; nothing that cannot be tweaked into the Steam system. If not, I guess I'll just use AoS rules; which ironically can easily be done by printing the charts here for free and using Steam bits.


I have detailed in other Steam threads why both my published maps will variously not play well and will not represent similar games to their Age of Steam versions when used with Steam's components and split tracks etc. I'd rather not repeat that detailing here. The rules are available online, you are free to try a merge-set of course, and I am interested in whatever eventuates, but whatever you end up with will be a sham of the original design.

Note: Both maps come with their own custom charts. They have to, as they make changes to the Age of Steam charts.
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Dave Kudzma
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Re: The New Expansion
clearclaw wrote:
Exactly the same? No. I accept that you may not be prepared or able to see the differences.


No offense JC, but I find your usual bias unsurprising; this was the rebuttal I had expected.

However, you are correct that we may have unequal expectations; indeed I find that no one equals the heights of your expectations when it relates to Age of Steam. In this I couldn't compare, however prepared to see the differences? In most cases I deem them marginal, or so minimal they DO NOT MATTER TO ME. Further, perhaps I am unwilling to analyze a game to the degree that you might; this is just not my way.

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I am confident that what you define as just fine is very different than what I similarly expect.


Truer words were never spoken.

Quote:
I have detailed in other Steam threads why both my published maps will variously not play well and will not represent similar games to their Age of Steam versions when used with Steam's components and split tracks etc. I'd rather not repeat that detailing here. The rules are available online, you are free to try a merge-set of course, and I am interested in whatever eventuates, but whatever you end up with will be a sham of the original design.

Note: Both maps come with their own custom charts. They have to, as they make changes to the Age of Steam charts.


While the more uniquely designed maps as yours, which introduces more extreme variants to the system, would certainly be more difficult, I could hardly say playing with maps that have more basic alterations ending up with a sham of the original design. Citing that there are no changes amongst Ted Alspac's maps in AoS vs Steam seems to point toward integrating extension maps "as-is" with next to no effect on game play.
Only the most hard core, or perhaps the most stubborn would argue otherwise IMHO.

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jim b
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Re: The New Expansion
locusshifter wrote:
Only the most hard core, or perhaps the most stubborn would argue otherwise IMHO.

He wears that "Fun Murderer" badge with pride, I'm afraid.
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J C Lawrence
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Re: The New Expansion
locusshifter wrote:
I could hardly say playing with maps that have more basic alterations ending up with a sham of the original design.


The resulting product will be clearly different and easily and accurately described as counterfeit, an imitation, an aped similarity etc. ie a sham. You might like the sham, and that's fine, but it remains a sham of the original.

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Only the most hard core, or perhaps the most stubborn would argue otherwise IMHO.


I am stubborn. I'll leave it to others to decide if I'm hardcore (not sure why that's important, I merely try to remain consistent with the principles I've set myself). My expectations are perhaps more exacting than most. None of this should be a surprise or any reason for me to apologise for my arguments.

jimb wrote:
He wears that "Fun Murderer" badge with pride, I'm afraid.


Perhaps more self-recognition. Not much pride I'm afraid, but considerable humour, and I do find it handy as a litmus test to select out uninteresting things. I like a good and useful tool!
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Dave Kudzma
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Re: 2 New Expansions - Steam Sun, and Steam London
Quote:
The resulting product will be clearly different and easily and accurately described as counterfeit, an imitation, an aped similarity etc. ie a sham. You might like the sham, and that's fine, but it remains a sham of the original.


You continue to apply knowledge of me which you do not have, or seem willing to ignore. I'm done on this point; it's the debate that's the sham.

Quote:
I am stubborn. I'll leave it to others to decide if I'm hardcore (not sure why that's important, I merely try to remain consistent with the principles I've set myself). My expectations are perhaps more exacting than most. None of this should be a surprise or any reason for me to apologise for my arguments.


Your consistent opinions are why you are a geek buddy and certainly no one will ask you to apologize; you've done nothing to offend IMHO.

While it's been interesting picking your brain, we've now begun to work into circular arguments.
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