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Space Hulk (third edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Noobs and Suicide Mission rss

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Branko K.
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I've played this mission with noobies a few times... and it's carnage. Seriously. Marines don't stand a chance. In fact, I think the mission is quite hard even when the Marines know what they're doing, but when the Marine player is learning the game, it's brutal.

Does anyone tweak it a bit when there's a noob in the house? For instance, I think I prefer having a 1-blip reinforcement instead of two (wasn't there only 1-blip reinforcement anyway in the earlier versions?). Also, I don't like how the GS player on his first turn gets both initial blips AND the reinforcements (if that's the way you should play, and I think it is), I prefer slow buildup instead of huge swarm right from the get-go.

So.. do you tweak it the same way or do you just stomp the noob to the ground? And while we're at it, is the GS supposed to get reinforcements on his very first turn or not?
 
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Jon Grey
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A friend and I played our first game of SH ever the other night and of course started with Mission I. We rolled to decide who plays Genestealers, I got the lower roll so I happily took up the GS role. Thinking I was going to outright slaughter him, I gave him some freebie kills to learn and experiment with overwatch and LOS.

When I decided to get "serious," for some reason I thought packing the launch control room with GS was a good idea. I'd wait for the flamer to come up to the door and spring my trap, hoorah!

Not even 30 minutes into the game, the flamer waltzes up to the door, opens it, and fires. I'm such an idiot. BUT at least he had a great time, which means I'll have a buddy to play SH with for a long time to come.
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Chris Musgrove
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Have the beginer play the GS. The SM are harder to play.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you understand?
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This may e a good idea. If it's too far the other way, you can always increase the starting Blip total to compensate.
 
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SPARTAN VI wrote:
A friend and I played our first game of SH ever the other night and of course started with Mission I. We rolled to decide who plays Genestealers, I got the lower roll so I happily took up the GS role. Thinking I was going to outright slaughter him, I gave him some freebie kills to learn and experiment with overwatch and LOS.

When I decided to get "serious," for some reason I thought packing the launch control room with GS was a good idea. I'd wait for the flamer to come up to the door and spring my trap, hoorah!

Not even 30 minutes into the game, the flamer waltzes up to the door, opens it, and fires. I'm such an idiot. BUT at least he had a great time, which means I'll have a buddy to play SH with for a long time to come.


too funny !!!

good idea to convince people to play with you (such as a girlfiend or wife) !
will definitively try it
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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I'm guessing genestealers now get two blips in mission one to compensate for:

A) The sargeant now has a power sword (he didn't before)
B) Sustained fire in overwatch
C) Guard status

With only one-blip the stealers will get cained.

If you are playing with a noob, let them be stealers first. They are more likely to win, there isn't as much pressure, there are less options in a turn (no flamer, no choice between shooting and close assault), and they will learn from watching what you do with the marines.

If they really want to play with the marines, start on mission two (Exterminate), which is tougher for the stealer player to win.
 
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Branko K.
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LordHellfury wrote:
The Genestealer player receives ONE reinforcement blip per turn.


I know this was the case before, and I don't know why they changed it. I thought the "new" overwatch and guard were perhaps a bit too powerful so two blips balance it.. however it turned out that it's really not the case. With two blips most of the time you don't even have to try as a Genestealer, just pile'em up and overwhelm the poor marine bastard...
 
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Branko K.
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Agreed.

The design of the mission screams "tutorial!". Go here, shoot flamer in this room, congrats you won. Smaller map guarantees some intense skirmishes with the Stealers, and it's all a nice preparation for future challenges.

Upping the difficulty so that the scenario is downright impossible doesn't make a lot of sense. If it was the very last mission, where the last remains of the Marines must go against overwhelming odds to accomplish one final heroic goal.. then all would be cool. But the very first one? Come on.
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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LordHellfury wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
I'm guessing genestealers now get two blips in mission one to compensate for:

A) The sargeant now has a power sword (he didn't before)
B) Sustained fire in overwatch
C) Guard status

With only one-blip the stealers will get cained.


A) He had that in 2nd ed but not sure about 1st ed.
B) This was present in 1st edition while still having one blip per turn. Even the overkill rule was there as well making it even easier for the marines.
C) Big whoop. Its a possible rationale, but a very thin one.

Sorry, I just dont see a good reason to change what was typically the mission every noob plays for the first time. if they are worried about vets just traipsing through the scenario then the players can adjust that for themselves. IMO, Suicide is THE starter mission and should remain geared for noob play.


Sorry - my overwatch comment was regarding unjamming without losing overwatch status which wasn't possible before (also automatically unjamming at the end of a turn). That was my fault not being clear what I was saying.

And as for 2nd ed having the power sword - maybe so, but not its power sword with guard status. Even better. (He didn't have the sword in 1st ed - just a +1 bonus.)
 
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Branko K.
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:

And as for 2nd ed having the power sword - maybe so, but not its power sword with guard status. Even better. (He didn't have the sword in 1st ed - just a +1 bonus.)


I've done some number crunching... and the sergeant with the sword AND on guard has 28% chance of dying in the first close-combat battle, 48% in the first two, 62% in the first three and 72% in the first four.. so he is really not such a lean mean close-combat fighting machine he may seem to be. In fact, I suspect one is better off placing him in overwatch and putting up with that last guardless close-combat then placing all bets on Guard.

In any case, "well now you have sword & guard" definitely sucks as reasoning for doubling the reinforcements..


 
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Kevin Outlaw
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Yeah, you can prove anything with statistics.

I don't really read the stat-crunching stuff. I can appreciate why it interests some people, but I tend to just wing it a bit. I like the mystery of not knowing my marine really has a 0.1% chance of surviving that broodlord sneaking up behind him...

I think mission one is fine - its a baptism of fire (especially if you win ). It's supposed to let the marine player know that this game is bad ass.

I still think a power sword, new guard ability, better overwatch ability, and the chance to redraw the CP token for that early burst of speed is a fair trade for one extra blip per turn. The map is so small and the corridors so long that the extra blip per turn often can't be used as effectively as in the larger missions anyway, especially as a single marine at the back can block off two entry points for the whole mission without even breaking a sweat.

The good thing is, it's easy to tweak a mission if you need to.

But if a brand new player wants to be the marine, you can always start them on mission two. Mission two also uses the assault cannon rather than the flamer, and its easier for a newb to understand that the cannon works in much the same way as a storm bolter than it is to understand the concept of flaming corridors to block LOS etc.
 
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Branko K.
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:

I don't really read the stat-crunching stuff. I can appreciate why it interests some people, but I tend to just wing it a bit. I like the mystery of not knowing my marine really has a 0.1% chance of surviving that broodlord sneaking up behind him...


Nah, I do not worry myself with statistics, too. However in this case it really interested me how good this sword-wielding Sergeant really was.. and I was pretty amazed that the answer is: well, not really. It's not about small-scale stuff, like 0.1%, it's more like "well your close-combat maniac is actually pretty likely to be dead in his very second battle." Say WHAT?

I like the idea of 2nd mission being the "tutorial" one, especially since the flamer is the key to success in the 1st one yet is not really simple to explain to newbies (and the flamer miniature is not as distinctive as the cannon one). It's just that I kinda prefer the smaller map and faster gameplay as the 2nd mission is a bit more involved...
 
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