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Subject: Many Rules Questions rss

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Larry Levy
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Boy, I really don't understand the rules to this game. Okay, that may be a slight exagerration, because I get the basic premise. But there are some fundamental concepts here that I'm just not picking up from the online rules. Maybe some kind souls can help me out with them.

1. The rules say that with four players, pairs of players will take their actions simultaneously. What exactly does that mean? Surely it's not a freeform thing; the players have to take turns, right? Does it just mean that two players alternate turns until both are done, then the other two players go? Or is it if I choose an action, we both can do it? Or maybe something else (I know that if I play a card that affects other players, only my partner is affected). I have the feeling this is a fundamental part of the game, but it's never explained in the rules.

2. Just to be sure, when the rules say to "play" a Helper card, they really mean to use one that you've played earlier that turn, right? You can't play a card from your hand, because no one has a hand of cards during the Action phase.

3. The vegetables that are delivered to a Regular Customer must come from your cart, correct?

4. If you don't serve a Casual Customer in the turn you play the card, it just stays in front of you until you do serve it, right?

5. I don't understand how the Con Man Helper works. It allows me to swap it for a Helper belonging to another player who has already played that turn. But don't you discard Helpers after you use them? So why would an opponent who has taken her turn have a Helper for me to swap with? Or are you allowed to keep a Helper from turn to turn if you don't use it?

6. Let's clear that up about Helpers: when do you have to use them? Is it on the turn they're played, or can you keep them if they're not used? If it's the former, does this only apply to Helpers played during the Card Phase, or is it also true of Helpers you receive as part of a Two-pack action?

7. If I use the Deliveryman to deliver to an opponent's Regular Customer and it's that Customer's last delivery, I assume the card is discarded and my opponent doesn't have to deliver to that Customer this turn, correct?

8. When you use the Merchant to buy veggies, do they come from the Supply or from your Shop? (The rules say that the veggies have to be in their Shop, but that may just be a requirement. Okay, that may be a rules lawyer's question, but the section is worded peculiarly.)

9. Suppose I use the Messenger Boy to deliver twice to a Regular Customer's top row. The rules say these deliveries must be made at the same time. Is this an exception to the previous rule, that says I'm allowed to deliver once, use the proceeds to buy more veggies, and then make my second delivery?

Usually, I'd just make common-sense assumptions with some of these questions. But every now and then, you have trouble wrapping your head around a set of rules and then you start to question everything. Anyway, any help on these queries will be greatly appreciated.
 
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Larry Levy wrote:

Boy, I really don't understand the rules to this game. Okay, that may be a slight exagerration, because I get the basic premise. But there are some fundamental concepts here that I'm just not picking up from the online rules. Maybe some kind souls can help me out with them.

1. The rules say that with four players, pairs of players will take their actions simultaneously.


This is the only one I'll try to respond to right now, since I can't dig through the rules at the moment for the others.

My take on this mechanic is that, during the action phase, it basically turns into a pair of two-player games. There are two first players and two second players. Say you're one of the first players. You can only affect one of the second players, and the other first player can only affect the other second player. So, you and the other first player can both play simultaneously because you can't interact with each other.

This is my interpretation, I'm sure Ponton or someone will correct me if this is wrong.
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jbrier
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Larry Levy wrote:

1. The rules say that with four players, pairs of players will take their actions simultaneously. What exactly does that mean?


In a 4p game, the interactive cards only affect your "partner", so the players that are paired together have no effect on each other, thus they can take their turns at the same time without a problem. This mechanism is just meant to reduce downtime.

Larry Levy wrote:
2. Just to be sure, when the rules say to "play" a Helper card, they really mean to use one that you've played earlier that turn, right? You can't play a card from your hand, because no one has a hand of cards during the Action phase.


When you acquire a helper card (or any other card for that matter) during the card drafting phase, it goes to its appropriate place in your play area. All helpers' abilities are one-time effects, so when you use them you discard the card (which was previously in your play area). You can also discard a helper you've acquired without using its ability.

Larry Levy wrote:
3. The vegetables that are delivered to a Regular Customer must come from your cart, correct?


The vegetables must be yours, so presumably they came from your cart or you just acquired them at a stall or... I don't understand what you're confused about- the cart is just a holding place for vegetables you own.

Larry Levy wrote:
4. If you don't serve a Casual Customer in the turn you play the card, it just stays in front of you until you do serve it, right?


Yes

Larry Levy wrote:
5. I don't understand how the Con Man Helper works. It allows me to swap it for a Helper belonging to another player who has already played that turn. But don't you discard Helpers after you use them? So why would an opponent who has taken her turn have a Helper for me to swap with? Or are you allowed to keep a Helper from turn to turn if you don't use it?


You don't discard a helper until you use it, as I mentioned above.

Larry Levy wrote:
6. Let's clear that up about Helpers: when do you have to use them? Is it on the turn they're played, or can you keep them if they're not used? If it's the former, does this only apply to Helpers played during the Card Phase, or is it also true of Helpers you receive as part of a Two-pack action?


You don't have to use them ever. When you acquire them they go in your play area. You can leave them there forever, use them during the appropriate phase, or discard them at any time.

Larry Levy wrote:
7. If I use the Deliveryman to deliver to an opponent's Regular Customer and it's that Customer's last delivery, I assume the card is discarded and my opponent doesn't have to deliver to that Customer this turn, correct?


Yes.
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Larry Levy
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verandi wrote:
Larry Levy wrote:

1. The rules say that with four players, pairs of players will take their actions simultaneously. What exactly does that mean?

In a 4p game, the interactive cards only affect your "partner", so the players that are paired together have no effect on each other, thus they can take their turns at the same time without a problem. This mechanism is just meant to reduce downtime.

Okay, two players taking actions at the same time sounds like it could lead to confusion, but maybe when I play the game, I'll see it isn't a problem. Thanks for the answers, John.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Larry Levy wrote:
1. The rules say that with four players, pairs of players will take their actions simultaneously. What exactly does that mean?


Start player chooses a partner - they form one pair. Second start player and remaining player form the second pair. Now, both start players simultaneously perform their actions. They can't influence each other nor can they influence the waiting player of the other pair. The waiting players watch the actions of the start players. After one start player is ready, his partner performs his actions. This is totally independant from the other pair.

Ex. A, B, C, D are the players. Player A ist 1st start player, player D is 2nd. Player A chooses player C as his partner. So, A and C form one pair, B and D form the other. A and D start to perform their actions. C watches A, B watches D. Some time later... D is ready, A still is performing his actions. B starts performing his actions and D watches him. Later, A is ready and C starts performing his actions and A watches him. By the time, B is ready - so, both, B and D, are ready and wait for C to finish his actions. Then a new round begins.

During this phase, A can only play action cards against C, and D only against B, and vice-versa.


Quote:
2. Just to be sure, when the rules say to "play" a Helper card, they really mean to use one that you've played earlier that turn, right? You can't play a card from your hand, because no one has a hand of cards during the Action phase.


Yes, playing a card means to discard one that is lying in your play area (that you've placed there in a previous card phase).


Quote:
3. The vegetables that are delivered to a Regular Customer must come from your cart, correct?


Correct. Market stands, regular and casual customers need to be payed with veggies from your cart.


Quote:
4. If you don't serve a Casual Customer in the turn you play the card, it just stays in front of you until you do serve it, right?


Correct. You may not discard Market stands, regular and casual customers until they've been fully served.


Quote:
5. I don't understand how the Con Man Helper works. It allows me to swap it for a Helper belonging to another player who has already played that turn. But don't you discard Helpers after you use them? So why would an opponent who has taken her turn have a Helper for me to swap with? Or are you allowed to keep a Helper from turn to turn if you don't use it?


You need not to play any Helper card during your turn. If you don't, they stay in your play area for future turns. Of course, with the Con Man in play, as a start player, you need to be especially careful to not leave Helpers in your play area that might help the owner of the Con Man. However, once a player plays the Con Man against you, you receive the Con Man. So, it's not that bad to leave cards in your play area that might be swapped for the Con Man.


Quote:
6. Let's clear that up about Helpers: when do you have to use them? Is it on the turn they're played, or can you keep them if they're not used?


You never have to use them at all! If you don't, they stay where they are. However, if you amass Helper cards, the "two-pack" becomes more expensive for you. So, do play them from time to time or discard them if you don't need them any more. You may discard Helper cards (and only them!) at any time during your turn.


Quote:
7. If I use the Deliveryman to deliver to an opponent's Regular Customer and it's that Customer's last delivery, I assume the card is discarded and my opponent doesn't have to deliver to that Customer this turn, correct?


Correct. This is why you have to pay 2 cash to that player - you might cause him to have more casual customers now which he'll now get less money for.


Quote:
8. When you use the Merchant to buy veggies, do they come from the Supply or from your Shop?


You buy them directly from your shop, not the general supply. There is another card that allows you to buy veggies from the general supply.


Quote:
9. Suppose I use the Messenger Boy to deliver twice to a Regular Customer's top row. The rules say these deliveries must be made at the same time. Is this an exception to the previous rule, that says I'm allowed to deliver once, use the proceeds to buy more veggies, and then make my second delivery?


This is no exception as such. In fact, there's another rule that says: once you've delivered to the top row of a Regular customer, you have to discard that Regular customer. Now, if you play the Messenger boy, you may deliver twice to that last row IF and only if you do it at once without buying veggies in-between. Buying veggies in-between would cause the Regular customer to be discarded as he'd have full rows now.
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Ralph Bruhn
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Thanks to John and Grzegorz for the quick and correct answers!
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Larry Levy
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Yes, thanks to all. I particularly appreciated Grzegorz' detailed responses. For some reason I really struggled with the rules for this one (and I still think a few explanatory sentences about how the four-player game plays would have been prudent). I believe I understand it all now. Thanks, again.
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jbrier
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Larry Levy wrote:
For some reason I really struggled with the rules for this one


I think your main point of confusion was not understanding that during the card drafting phase you GET cards, but that doesn't mean you USE them right away. Instead, they go into your play area, where they are available for use.

What may have confused you is that in the rules it says that during the drafting phase you will PLAY two cards, but by "play" it really just means place them in your play area, not actually "play" them in the conventional sense. This seems to me to account for 90% of your confusion.
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Robert Schwieger
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I have a rules question as well. In the solo game does the player still receive four cards from the action deck, or is he only allowed to draw and play cards from the offer grid? The rules say the player is allowed to purchase up to two cards from the offer grid. So, I guess another question is how many cards may he play? In the multiplayer game he is required to play 2; can he play zero or 1 in the solo game? Thanks in advance for the help!
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HannibalUltor wrote:
I have a rules question as well. In the solo game does the player still receive four cards from the action deck, or is he only allowed to draw and play cards from the offer grid? The rules say the player is allowed to purchase up to two cards from the offer grid. So, I guess another question is how many cards may he play? In the multiplayer game he is required to play 2; can he play zero or 1 in the solo game? Thanks in advance for the help!
No, he doesn't get four cards. The whole "Card phase" is replaced by the grid system.
So in the solo game the player is allowed to purchase UP TO TWO cards from the grid.
In the multiplayer each player gets EXACTLY TWO cards.
So yes, it's allowed to take no cards in the solo game. But don't forget to discard the second row then ...

The reason for the difference: In the solo game you have to pay money for the cards. And you shouldn't be forced to take a loan.

I hope this answers your questions.
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Yes, Thank you! That's pretty much what I had figured. It's just nice to have it confirmed. I think what threw me off was the sentence in the rules that said: "the solo game is played exactly like the game for 2 to 4 players, with the following additions." (my emphasis) It looks to be a great game.
 
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Kester J
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Ponton wrote:
Larry Levy wrote:
1. The rules say that with four players, pairs of players will take their actions simultaneously. What exactly does that mean?


Start player chooses a partner - they form one pair. Second start player and remaining player form the second pair. Now, both start players simultaneously perform their actions. They can't influence each other nor can they influence the waiting player of the other pair. The waiting players watch the actions of the start players. After one start player is ready, his partner performs his actions. This is totally independant from the other pair.

Ex. A, B, C, D are the players. Player A ist 1st start player, player D is 2nd. Player A chooses player C as his partner. So, A and C form one pair, B and D form the other. A and D start to perform their actions. C watches A, B watches D. Some time later... D is ready, A still is performing his actions. B starts performing his actions and D watches him. Later, A is ready and C starts performing his actions and A watches him. By the time, B is ready - so, both, B and D, are ready and wait for C to finish his actions. Then a new round begins.

During this phase, A can only play action cards against C, and D only against B, and vice-versa.


So is this just a downtime eliminator, as John said above? Because the game looks very good to me apart from this part, which looks a bit finicky and, well, antisocial. Will the game play fine if we just do away with it?
 
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Kester wrote:
Ponton wrote:
Larry Levy wrote:
1. The rules say that with four players, pairs of players will take their actions simultaneously. What exactly does that mean?


Start player chooses a partner - they form one pair. Second start player and remaining player form the second pair. Now, both start players simultaneously perform their actions. They can't influence each other nor can they influence the waiting player of the other pair. The waiting players watch the actions of the start players. After one start player is ready, his partner performs his actions. This is totally independant from the other pair.

Ex. A, B, C, D are the players. Player A ist 1st start player, player D is 2nd. Player A chooses player C as his partner. So, A and C form one pair, B and D form the other. A and D start to perform their actions. C watches A, B watches D. Some time later... D is ready, A still is performing his actions. B starts performing his actions and D watches him. Later, A is ready and C starts performing his actions and A watches him. By the time, B is ready - so, both, B and D, are ready and wait for C to finish his actions. Then a new round begins.

During this phase, A can only play action cards against C, and D only against B, and vice-versa.


So is this just a downtime eliminator, as John said above? Because the game looks very good to me apart from this part, which looks a bit finicky and, well, antisocial. Will the game play fine if we just do away with it?


Not quite a downtime eliminator - there are actions in the game that reference "other players"; in the 4-player game, you may only target your partner if you take one of those actions.
 
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Ralph Bruhn
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Zambo wrote:
Kester wrote:
Ponton wrote:
Larry Levy wrote:
1. The rules say that with four players, pairs of players will take their actions simultaneously. What exactly does that mean?


Start player chooses a partner - they form one pair. Second start player and remaining player form the second pair. Now, both start players simultaneously perform their actions. They can't influence each other nor can they influence the waiting player of the other pair. The waiting players watch the actions of the start players. After one start player is ready, his partner performs his actions. This is totally independant from the other pair.

Ex. A, B, C, D are the players. Player A ist 1st start player, player D is 2nd. Player A chooses player C as his partner. So, A and C form one pair, B and D form the other. A and D start to perform their actions. C watches A, B watches D. Some time later... D is ready, A still is performing his actions. B starts performing his actions and D watches him. Later, A is ready and C starts performing his actions and A watches him. By the time, B is ready - so, both, B and D, are ready and wait for C to finish his actions. Then a new round begins.

During this phase, A can only play action cards against C, and D only against B, and vice-versa.


So is this just a downtime eliminator, as John said above? Because the game looks very good to me apart from this part, which looks a bit finicky and, well, antisocial. Will the game play fine if we just do away with it?


Not quite a downtime eliminator - there are actions in the game that reference "other players"; in the 4-player game, you may only target your partner if you take one of those actions.
I think, that Kester means exactly this. Yes, you can play without these partner rules. In this case you only need a third startplayer marker. In the action phase everyone can use his cards on everyone - so it's the same game as the 3-player version.
But: If you're not really quick players, the action phase will have a significant downtime. Especially, because you have even more options to use your interactive cards. If this doesn't bother you, just try it!
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Kester J
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barandur wrote:
Zambo wrote:
Kester wrote:
So is this just a downtime eliminator, as John said above? Because the game looks very good to me apart from this part, which looks a bit finicky and, well, antisocial. Will the game play fine if we just do away with it?
Not quite a downtime eliminator - there are actions in the game that reference "other players"; in the 4-player game, you may only target your partner if you take one of those actions.
I think, that Kester means exactly this. Yes, you can play without these partner rules. In this case you only need a third startplayer marker. In the action phase everyone can use his cards on everyone - so it's the same game as the 3-player version.
But: If you're not really quick players, the action phase will have a significant downtime. Especially, because you have even more options to use your interactive cards. If this doesn't bother you, just try it!


Thanks, that's good to hear. I'll just try not to play it with any procrastinators
 
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Michael Mehl
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Awesome questions cleared up the helper questions without me having to start a new thread thumbsup
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Ponton wrote:
There is another card that allows you to buy veggies from the general supply.
This is the Shopper.
 
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