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Subject: Comprehensive List of Differences Between 1st and 3rd Edition Rules rss

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To help my fellow 1st edition fans make the transition to 3rd edition, I took the time to create this little comparison of the core rules differences between the two editions. Second edition is not covered. I also did not cover Death Wing and Genestealer expansion rules that are not included (in some capacity) in 3rd edition. Hopefully it will be of some use. Feel free to correct mistakes/omissions in the comments and I will update this initial post.

Update 4/19/10: I now have this chart as a downloadable PDF available here.

Update 9/29/09: I've added clarifying notes in red based on the official FAQ.

The Timer

1st Edition: The order of play begins with the Set Timer Phase. The Stealer player announces the beginning of the Marine player's turn, at which point the Marine player has three minutes (which includes the Command Phase, and the Marine player drawing CPs).

3rd Edition: The sand timer is the only timepiece. The timer is started during the Command Phase by the Stealer player once the Marine player places his CP marker on the Mission Status Display.

Sergeants

1st Edition: The Marine player loses 30 seconds to his turn time per each Sergeant killed.

Sergeants do not allow CP chits to be redrawn.

3rd Edition: Killed Sergeants have no effect on the sand timer.

The Marine player may redraw his CP chit during the Command Phase if he has at least one Sergeant in play.

Marine Command Points

1st Edition: The rules specifically state that CPs may be used during an active Marine's turn to move another Marine, without inactivating the active Marine.

The 1st edition rules specifically state that CP actions taken during the Stealer turn must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event.

3rd Edition: The clarification that CPs may be used during an active Marine's turn to move another Marine is absent from the 3rd edition rules.

The Official FAQ confirms the 1st edition ruling: Command points have priority over everything. In your turn, spend them however, wherever, and whenever you want with no restrictions, interrupting another Space Marine’s actions if desired.

The clarification that CP actions may only be taken during the Stealer turn by a Marine that saw the triggering event is missing from 3rd edition.

The Official FAQ reverses the 1st edition ruling: In the Genestealer's turn, you have to wait until one of your Space Marines sees a Genestealer do something. Then decide if you want to spend any command points – you may do so to carry out a single action with a single Space Marine anywhere on the board (not just one that saw the Genestealer do something). After spending any command points, check for overwatch shots for Space Marines that didn’t have command points spent upon them.

Marine Actions - Turn & Fire

1st Edition: A Marine may not turn and fire a Storm Bolter or Assault Cannon. Rules for this were added later, but are not in the 1st ed rulebook.

3rd Edition: A Marine may turn 90 degrees and fire a Storm Bolter or Assault Cannon for 1 AP. The shot must be taken after the 90 degree turn is complete.

Stealer Actions

1st Edition: A Stealer may turn 90 degrees as a 0 AP cost Action, and 180 degrees as a 1 AP action. A 90 degree turn counts as an action, just one that does not deplete any of Stealer's 6 APs. Turning is always considered a separate action.

A sideways move costs 2 APs.

3rd Edition: A Stealer may turn (in place) 90 or 180 degrees for 1 AP. However, a Stealer may also turn 90 degrees as part of a move action. The Stealer may move forward or sideways with a turn for 1 AP, and may move backward with a turn for 2 AP. The turn may take place before or after the move (but not both - only one 90 degree turn may be made). The entire move and turn sequence is considered a single action.

A sideways move with no turn costs 1 AP.

Line of Sight (and Fire Arc)

1st Edition: A Marine's Line of Sight extends a full 180 degrees (orthogonally outward from the "west" to the "east" of the figure).

3rd Edition: A Marine's Line of Sight extends in a 90 degree arc to its front (diagonally outward from the "northwest" to the "northeast"). In effect, the LOS is now exactly the same as the (1st edition) Fire Arc. As a result, Fire Arc is absent from the 3rd edition rules.

Clarification: The "Corners" description on page 12 of the 3rd edition rulebook has been incorrectly interpreted by some to imply that a marine can "peek around a corner" and see all the way down the corresponding corridor. This is incorrect. The marine can still only see the diagonal squares forward.

Diagonal Line of Sight into Rooms/Wide Corridors

1st Edition: A Marine's Line of Sight extends from the center of its square to the center of the target square (the "piece of string" method). If the line crosses an obstacle (wall or model) LOS is blocked. If the line only touches the tip of a corner, LOS is not blocked.

LOS along a diagonal is blocked if walls/models are on both sides of the diagonal. So...

XB
AX

If walls/models occupy the X spaces, LOS from A to B is blocked.

3rd Edition: A Marine's Line of Sight into the side squares of a room (relative to its position) is always blocked unless the Marine is standing at the entrance to the room.

To clarify, in the example on page 13 of 3rd edition rulebook, the Marine with the red "X" next to it would have LOS to the two Stealers if 1st edition rules were used, but not 3rd edition. This is further exemplified on page 17 of the 1st edition rulebook.

The clarification of LOS along a diagonal is missing from the 3rd edition rulebook.

The Official FAQ confirms the "LOS along a diagonal" example above, and seems to imply that the "piece of string" method is still intact for a Marine in a room "doorway" space (but not a Marine "down the corridor" which adheres to the 3rd ed rulebook): A model in a room can see all of the squares in the room that are in his line of sight, as long as a line drawn from the model to the target does not a) pass through a square that blocks the line of sight, or b) pass between a wall and a square that blocks the line of sight, or c) pass between two squares both of which block the line of sight. An example of b) can be found on page 11 of the rules – the Genestealer cannot see either of the squares marked ‘X’. Remember that a model can only see squares in a corridor that are directly in front of it. An example of this can be found on page 13 – the two Genestealers cannot see the Space Marine marked with an ‘X’, though they can see the square in front of him as it is part of the room section.

So, it appears that the solution blends "piece of string" while in the doorway, but still adheres to the blatant "a Marine two squares away from a room can only see the middle corridor" rule in the 3rd ed rulebook. Therefore, according to the rules and the FAQ, the following are all true (O = clear LOS; X = blocked LOS; GS = clear LOS to a Genestealer; gs = blocked LOS to Genestealer):

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXX| O | O | X |XXX
|----|----|----|----|----|XXX
| X | X | X | O | GS |XXX
|----|----|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXX| GS | O | O |XXX
XXXXXXXXXX|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX| SM |XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX|----|XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX| |XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX|----|XXXXXXXX


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXX| gs | O | X |XXX
|----|----|----|----|----|XXX
| X | X | gs | O | gs |XXX
|----|----|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXX| GS | O | GS |XXX
XXXXXXXXXX|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX| SM |XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX|----|XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX| |XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX|----|XXXXXXXX


XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXX|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXX| X | O | X |XXX
|----|----|----|----|----|XXX
| X | X | X | O | X |XXX
|----|----|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXX| X | O | X |XXX
XXXXXXXXXX|----|----|----|XXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX| O |XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX|----|XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX| SM |XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX|----|XXXXXXXX


Sustained Fire

1st Edition: A Marine gains a sustained fire bonus on a single target provided it does not perform any other actions (including moving) during or between shots. The second shot at the target kills on 5+, the 3rd shot kills on 4+, and the 4th and subsequent shots kill on 3+.

The example on page 20 of the 1st edition rulebook confirms that the sustained fire bonus does not "start" if the first shot was taken during a Move and Fire action. In other words, the first shot must be taken by a Marine standing still in order for the second shot to gain the sustained fire bonus.

Marines never gain a sustained fire bonus while shooting on Overwatch.

3rd Edition: A Marine gains a sustained fire bonus on a single target provided it does not perform any other actions (including moving) after the first shot. The second and subsequent shots at the target kill on 5+.

The example on page 19 of the 3rd edition rulebook confirms that the sustained fire bonus can "start" if the first shot was taken during a Move and Fire action. In other words, the first shot may be taken by a Move and Fire action (and, it can be assumed/implied, a Turn and Fire action?), and the sustained fire bonus can be taken on the next shot, provided the Marine does not move.

Marines gain a sustained fire bonus when shooting at the same target while on Overwatch.

Overwatch

1st Edition: A jammed weapon ends Overwatch. A Marine wishing to go back on Overwatch must wait for a triggering Stealer move to clear its weapon (1 CP) then wait for another triggering Stealer move to go back on Overwatch (2 CPs). On the next triggering Stealer move, the Marine Overwatch-fires.

A jammed weapon stays jammed until it is cleared at the cost of 1 AP.

3rd Edition: A jammed weapon does not end Overwatch. A Marine must wait for a triggering Stealer move to clear its weapon (1 CP). On the next triggering Stealer move, the Marine Overwatch-fires (but does got gain s sustained fire bonus, due to the action spent clearing the weapon).

A jammed weapon is automatically cleared at the end of the turn during the Mission Status phase.

Leaving Overwatch

1st Edition: A Marine may voluntarily go out of Overwatch for 0 APs.

3rd Edition: The above rule is absent from 3rd Edition.

Guard Action

1st Edition: This rule does not exist in 1st edition.

3rd Edition: This rule has been added to 3rd edition.

Involuntary Conversion

1st Edition: The rules do not state that a blip may open a door to "involuntarily" reveal itself.

3rd Edition: The rules imply a blip may open a door to "involuntarily" reveal itself.

Ladders

1st Edition: The cost for a Stealer to move up or down a ladder is 2 AP.

A Marine may jump down a ladder/pitfall space.

Line of Sight can be traced to and from squares adjacent to a ladder, allowing weapon fire between floors.

A Marine may not initiate a close assault on a ladder square, and may not harm a Stealer who initiates a close assault.

3rd Edition: The cost for Stealer to move up or down a ladder is 1 AP. There is 1/6 chance a Marine will fall from a ladder.

Jumping into a ladder/pitfall space rules have been removed.

Line of Sight rules associated with ladders have been removed. The attacker may fire at or close assault the model on the other end of the ladder as if both models were adjacent and facing.

A Marine may initiate a close assault on a ladder square, and may kill a Stealer as a result of a close assault combat.

Assault Cannon

1st Edition: With a sustained fire bonus, the second shot at a target kills on 4+, the 3rd shot kills on 3+, and the 4th and subsequent shots kill on 2+.

An assault cannon may fire on Full Auto.

An assault cannon that malfunctions destroys Stealers and doors on 4+, and Marines and bulkheads on 5+.

3rd Edition: With a sustained fire bonus, the second and subsequent shots kill on 4+.

The Full Auto rules have been removed.

An assault cannon that malfunctions destroys all models and doors on 4+. Bulkheads are not mentioned.

Chain Fist

1st Edition: Marine may automatically destroy a bulkhead for 2 APs, and a door for 1 AP.

3rd Edition: Marine may automatically destroy a bulkhead or a door for 1 AP.

Heavy Flamer

1st Edition: A Marine may self-destruct its Heavy Flamer for 1 AP (and 1 ammo), destroying every model and door in the board section.

A model that survives its initial hit by the flamer may freely move throughout the affected board section with no further damage from the fire.

3rd Edition: Self-destruct rules have been removed.

A model that survives its initial hit by the flamer is re-attacked by the flames each time it moves to a new square within the affected board section.

Lightning Claws

1st Edition: The Marine rolls 2 dice in close assault and gains a +2 modifier to the high roll.

3rd Edition: The Marine rolls 2 dice in close assault and gains a +1 modifier to the high roll.

Storm Shield

1st Edition: The Marine may parry a frontal attack, exactly like the Power Sword, plus parry close assaults coming from the left side of the model.

3rd Edition: Parry has been replaced with Block. Stealers close assaulting from the front roll one less die.

Thunder Hammer

1st Edition: The Marine gains a +2 modifier in close assault.

A Marine may self-destruct its Thunder Hammer for 1 AP, destroying every model and door in the tile.

3rd Edition: The Marine gains a +1 modifier in close assault.

Self-destruct rules have been removed.

Librarians

1st Edition: Librarian rules vary depending on which expansion rules are used (Death Wing or Genestealer).

3rd Edition: The Librarian rules are greatly simplified.


Edits as this post is updated.
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Great list, thanks! Very well organized…

How about the rule that says that if a Sergent is still on the board, the Space Marine player can redraw the CP counter? This replaces the 30 second penalty per killed Sergent of the 1st edition.
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lebigot wrote:
Great list, thanks! Very well organized…

How about the rule that says that if a Sergent is still on the board, the Space Marine player can redraw the CP counter? This replaces the 30 second penalty per killed Sergent of the 1st edition.


Thank you! I added it above.
 
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bryanwinter wrote:
Marine Actions - Turn & Fire

1st Edition: A Marine may not turn and fire a Storm Bolter or Assault Cannon.

3rd Edition: A Marine may turn 90 degrees and fire a Storm Bolter or Assault Cannon for 1 AP. The shot must be taken after the 90 degree turn is complete.

In one of the later Q&As for first edition they added the "turn-and-fire" ability, but it was not there in the original rules.

bryanwinter wrote:
3rd Edition: The cost for Stealer to move up or down a ladder is 1 AP.

Line of Sight and weapon firing rules associated with ladders have been removed.

A Marine may initiate a close assault on a ladder square, and may kill a Stealer as a result of a close assault combat.

LOS and shooting are restricted to the square immediately above/below the ladder space (page 18).

A 1/6 chance to fall has been added for the Space Marines entering a ladder space.

Good list!
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Haggis wrote:
LOS and shooting are restricted to the square immediately above/below the ladder space (page 18).


I don't recall seeing shooting rules - only close combat. I'll check when I get home tonight and update.

Haggis wrote:
A 1/6 chance to fall has been added for the Space Marines entering a ladder space.


Thank you! This is added. I also mentioned the "jumping into the hole" rules.
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I've been re-reading a copy of 1st ed rules and especially the CP/Overwatch part and see nothing in there that specifically states that you can spend CP on marines that did not see a stealer move. All examples of in play use indicate only Marines that saw the action. There is only one line near the beginning that could be misinterpeted to mean otherwise. But all other examples deny.

bryanwinter wrote:

Marine Command Points

1st Edition: The rules specifically state that CPs may be used during an active Marine's turn to move another Marine, without inactivating the active Marine.

3rd Edition: This clarification is absent from the 3rd edition rules. Consensus among players is that the clarification still applies.

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Omega2064 wrote:
I've been re-reading a copy of 1st ed rules and especially the CP/Overwatch part and see nothing in there that specifically states that you can spend CP on marines that did not see a stealer move. All examples of in play use indicate only Marines that saw the action. There is only one line near the beginning that could be misinterpeted to mean otherwise. But all other examples deny.


Highlighted for emphasis.

The rule I pointed out above is not about Overwatch (nor mentioned in the Overwatch section) - it is about being able to use CPs to move a Marine during an active Marine's turn. And that is clearly stated in the 1st edition rules.

I don't think either rule set specifically says that you can or cannot use your CPs on a Marine that actually sees the triggering event. I could not find any references in either book. And since both rulebooks are equally vague, I left it out of this list.

Personally, I believe that the CPs can be spent on any Marine, provided CPs are only spent on a single action (wherever it takes place). I seem to recall that this was explained away by the Marines using their comlinks to get a companion to do something. It's just that usually the acting Marine is the one who sees the triggering event.

Unless someone can reference an official response to that question (for either rules set), I think this one ends up in the house rules bucket.


I am wrong about the above! The 1st edition rules specifically state the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event. This clarification is missing from 3rd edition.

Huh - well, the FAQ contradicts the 1st ed rules now. So, there you go!
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Ahhh. Misread it. My goof that.
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Omega2064 wrote:
Ahhh. Misread it. My goof that.


No problem! It's a common topic.
 
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Very nice work !

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bryanwinter wrote:
Haggis wrote:
LOS and shooting are restricted to the square immediately above/below the ladder space (page 18).


I don't recall seeing shooting rules - only close combat. I'll check when I get home tonight and update.


I'm wrong:

"...a model on one is allowed to shoot or close assault a model on the other..."

I've updated above.
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bryanwinter wrote:
Marine Command Points

1st Edition: The rules specifically state that CPs may be used during an active Marine's turn to move another Marine, without inactivating the active Marine.

The 1st edition rules specifically state the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event.

3rd Edition: This clarification is absent from the 3rd edition rules. Consensus among players is that the clarification still applies.

The clarification that the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event is missing from 3rd edition.

Wait until the Q&A for the final ruling on this, CPs can be spent on any Space Marine (there's a rule about losing sustained fire if a model other than the target takes an action to account for this).
 
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Haggis wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
Marine Command Points

1st Edition: The rules specifically state that CPs may be used during an active Marine's turn to move another Marine, without inactivating the active Marine.

The 1st edition rules specifically state the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event.

3rd Edition: This clarification is absent from the 3rd edition rules. Consensus among players is that the clarification still applies.

The clarification that the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event is missing from 3rd edition.

Wait until the Q&A for the final ruling on this, CPs can be spent on any Space Marine (there's a rule about losing sustained fire if a model other than the target takes an action to account for this.
The French rules are explicit, on one of the listed items:

Quote:
Command Points can be used only by a SM that has line of sight on a Genestealer that just performed an action. (p. 11)
i.e., only Marines that saw the triggering event get to use CPs…
 
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lebigot wrote:
Haggis wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
Marine Command Points

1st Edition: The rules specifically state that CPs may be used during an active Marine's turn to move another Marine, without inactivating the active Marine.

The 1st edition rules specifically state the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event.

3rd Edition: This clarification is absent from the 3rd edition rules. Consensus among players is that the clarification still applies.

The clarification that the action must be performed by a Marine that saw the triggering event is missing from 3rd edition.

Wait until the Q&A for the final ruling on this, CPs can be spent on any Space Marine (there's a rule about losing sustained fire if a model other than the target takes an action to account for this.
The French rules are explicit, on one of the listed items:

Quote:
Command Points can be used only by a SM that has line of sight on a Genestealer that just performed an action. (p. 11)
i.e., only Marines that saw the triggering event get to use CPs…

Interesting. Jervis Johnson was specific about any Space Marine being able to use CPs, and the English rules are not very clear, except for the sentence about losing sustained fire if a model other than the target takes an action. Mistranslation maybe?

Either way until the Q&A is released none of the interpretations are official (except apparently for the French rules )
 
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Quote:
The continuing debate on CP usage...


I look forward to that FAQ, but until I see it, these are the rules.

Until I hear otherwise, I think it is safe to assume a clarification in the 1st edition rulebook that was not included in the intentionally-streamlined 3rd edition rulebook can and should carry over.

And yes, I clearly understand what happens when you "assume."

Another 1st edition clarification above which did not make it to the new rulebook, but I think still stands:

Quote:
CPs may be used during an active Marine's turn to move another Marine, without inactivating the active Marine.


As for explicit rules that are missing (autocannon full auto; flamer self-destruct), in these cases I think the absence means the rules are no longer valid.

As already mentioned, the problem with many Games Workshop rules (and many rules in general) is that they often tuck "rules" into the dialog in the form of clarifications and examples.
 
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bryanwinter wrote:
As for explicit rules that are missing (autocannon full auto; flamer self-destruct), in these cases I think the absence means the rules are no longer valid.
Interesting point! So, the current rules say that if Brother Zael (the flamer bearer) is not killed (if he was in the room where he fired), then the flamer still works, right? This is strange, theme wise—but I'm sure fans will find an interpretation of why this is possible .
 
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Doesnt it say the Flamer automatically kills the Marine who detonated it?
 
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Omega2064 wrote:
Doesnt it say the Flamer automatically kills the Marine who detonated it?


Yes, in 1st ed, a Marine who self-destructs his Flamer or Thunder Hammer destroys every model and door in the tile. Automatically.
 
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Bumping due to recent "what's the difference between 1st and 3rd" threads.
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John "Omega" Williams
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ahem...

On most forums its either illegal or at least frowned upon to "bump" threads. Its useless clutter on oft allready cluttered threads. ( er... kinda like this post... )

And its more than rather irksome to get an alert to a thrad you're subscribed to and see its just a damn "bump" post.

And on the BGG this stunt is mostly useless as the current system doesnt "bump" posts to the forefront of the view list unless a member has clicked on "show most recent" or whatever its called now. Obviously most dont.

And for soemthing on topic.

Another diffrence between 1st and 3rd is that not all the Genestealers have their full compliment of arms...
 
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Omega2064 wrote:

On most forums its either illegal or at least frowned upon to "bump" threads. Its useless clutter on oft allready cluttered threads.


The point of bumping it was to prevent clutter, a plausible side-effect.

Quote:
( er... kinda like this post... )


Uh, yeah.

Quote:
And on the BGG this stunt is mostly useless as the current system doesnt "bump" posts to the forefront of the view list unless a member has clicked on "show most recent" or whatever its called now. Obviously most dont.


That's how it works for me; I only saw this thread because it was bumped by you.

Quote:
Another diffrence between 1st and 3rd is that not all the Genestealers have their full compliment of arms...


I assume there is a missing smilie here?
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My apologies.
 
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Updated with FAQ notes.
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Nathan Schroeder
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Who else is bummed that they removed the self destruct rules? I loved those rules. The Marine was making the ultimate sacrifice for the mission, his squad and the Emperor!
 
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bryanwinter wrote:

Involuntary Conversion
...
3rd Edition: The rules imply a blip may open a door to "involuntarily" reveal itself.


Where do the 3rd Edition rules imply this?

I recall the rules stating that a Genestealer player who accidentallyninja makes a move which puts a blip in Space Marine line of sight has to rewind to the action before this happened and forfeit the remaining action points.
 
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