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Subject: Minsk Pocket Question rss

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Billy Baker-DiGiulio
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Hi All,

Why wouldn't the Germans just release all of the Minsk pocket troops on turn one reinforcement phase? Take the single die roll of 13+ and be done with it. Is that a legal move? And if so what happens to the remaining Soviet troops in the pocket if a C result was not rolled on the Minks Escape table?

Any help on this is GREATLY appreciated!

Peace,

Billy
 
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Bill Lawson
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I have been taking 7 points worth on the first and second turns. 13+ on the third turn. In four plays the Russians have only gotten 2 units out of the pocket in 2 of the games and no one out of the pocket in the other 2.
Anyways the infantry will get backed up on the roads if you bring them all out at once.

The most important reason though for not bringing them all in on the first turn or turns is so I can buy 9th Army HQ activations. On the 3rd and 4th turns when the Germans only get 2 activations its nice to be able to purchase a third activation.
 
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Billy Baker-DiGiulio
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Thanks Bill,

That makes sense -- I'm not sure it that totally offsets the great German
benefits on this turn one. But that aside, what happens to the all the Russian forces still in the Minsk Pocket?? The russian player rolled a 5 on the Minsk escape table so they have 3 more units in the pocket -- are they still trapped? Do they roll again next turn?

The Germans took all of their Minsk pocket forces on turn one, but what if they had left one unit? Would one unit hold the seige until turn 4 and then elimante all the remaining Soviet forces?

The rules do not seem very clear on this.

Thanks for input!!

Billy
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Bill Lawson
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Its a good question and I don't have the answer. Wish I'd seen this ten minutes ago, I just emailed Adam about something else!
 
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Billy Baker-DiGiulio
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Thanks Bill.

But I guess I don't understand. The way the rules seem to written how could folks not think of doing just this strategy on turn one. It really makes a difference because the Germans do not need to worry about there armored divisions out alone on the advance. -- the 9th army infantry divisions flood the front line on the first turn. There does not seem to be any downside.

Let me know if you hear anything from Adam about his take on this.

Billy
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Adam Starkweather
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It is certainly a legal move.
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Billy Baker-DiGiulio
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Thanks for quick response Adam.

But, and we are playing our first game as we speak :-), what happens to the Soviet troops in the pocket if all the Germans leave on turn one? Do we still roll on the escape table? What if the Germans only leave a single inf division? Will that pin the remaining Soviet troops and kill them all come turn 4?

Billy
 
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Jason Cawley
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There is a huge downside.

The Germans only get 2 HQ activations on turns 3 and 4, and 3 activations on the other turns. If they have already released all Minsk forces, that is all they get.

The German infantry isn't going to be moving a heck of a lot, unless the panzers halt completely. The northern reinforcements are in range of the middle or southern. Everyone gets their one strategic movement on the reinforcement phase of turn 1, but then that's it.

In contrast, if the German slow bleed out of the pocket, they get to move an extra 1-2 activations per turn, on top of and after the strat move for the new units. This means they can e.g. strat move infantry forces forward in the center on turn one, but activate in the north to get the reinforcements there right up behind 3rd Panzer. Then on turn 2, strat move additional forces behind the center infantry and activate the whole accumulated group there.

The biggest possible force wallowing west of the Dnepr doesn't help at all. But you are welcome to try it.

In addition, there is a 50% chance it results in a VP chit handed back to the Russians (the "C" results), which biases the end outcome by a few VP.
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Jason Cawley
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The Germans don't need to leave anything, and there is no roll for anything else escaping if the Germans aren't removing anything new. What gets out the turn the Germans leave is going to be what gets out. That is a 50% chance of being "everything", but if it isn't then the rest never get away.
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Osprey
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JasonC wrote:

The Germans don't need to leave anything, and there is no roll for anything else escaping if the Germans aren't removing anything new. What gets out the turn the Germans leave is going to be what gets out. That is a 50% chance of being "everything", but if it isn't then the rest never get away.


Good answer Jason. I think you are the only one that has addressed this. When I was playing this game a few years ago, it really never occurred to me to even want to try to pull all the Germans out on the first turn because of the reasons mentioned in earlier posts. But now I am pulling this game back out and going through all the rules again (because I forget them easily!). Just for the hell of it I decided to see what would happen if I just went ahead and pulled all of the Germans out of the Minsk Pocket on Turn 1. Timmy was heading there with a pretty good sized force. Well, I pulled everyone out and then rolled a 6 on the Minsk Escape Table. That's a big No Effect. There are no Germans in Minsk and there will be no more Escape rolls to be made and all the Russians in the pocket will die from natural causes.
 
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