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Neuroshima Hex!» Forums » General

Subject: Out of curiosity... is Moloch the bomb? rss

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CLARENCE TAN
Canada
Richmond
British Columbia
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I was wondering how many people have had Moloch vs Outpost and had the latter win with people of roughly = skill?

The reason is that i find M to be especially tough vs O, mostly because:

1) M has effectively 2x or more the army of O, with more units, many with toughness, armor, and multiple attack directions, which O has little of any (i think most if not all their units are 1 toughness?). These assets mean M are very much geared to take on O, who has a lot of weak ranged units.

2) 2 airstrikes! I thought the clown could only be used in conjunction with the tile airstrike, but apparently it can detonate by itself, which means all the 1 health O units around die quick. Even mixed in with M units, quite a few can weather a blast.


I was thinking for new players playing against Moloch, I would take out the air strike and clown, especially if they play Outpost. I figure along with the relative difference of strengths between the armies, and each air strike being worth around 3-5 snipe tiles, that O pretty much does not stand a chance between equally expeerienced players.

Other alternatives apart from removing the bomb:
- using an airstrike costs moloch X HQ health points
- having an airstrike hit a line of hexes instead of the area
- adding mercs onto O side (someone else suggested this in another thread)

I was thinking about boosting O units in some way, but against the other armies they might fare better. After some reflecting, I think the thing that bothers me most about the balance between the armies is the air strike itself. If O had it instead of M (I'm not sure if that works thematically with the groups), then I'd say that would be a fair fight between M and O.

Any thoughts on the above, esp. if you have suggestions to balance the M overpowered / O underpowered, or Airstrike tile?



 
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Michal Herda
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1. Outpost's units are quite fast to attack (no Initiative 1 units at all), and they all can attack twice when they are standing next to the HQ.
2. Outpost is totally mobile. Something heavy is aiming at the HQ? *shrug* Move it, dammit. And bunker the spot with a unit of yours so it can't be pushed back over there.
3. The bombs aren't really that scary. Clown can be taken down before it is detonated at all, and can't be placed anywhere on the board, which limits its tactical efficency. And, to take care of the bomb's problem, place your units so they are mixed with Moloch's (yes, it's hard initially). This way an eventual bomb doesn't get rid of half of all your soldiers.

What Outpost doesn't make in firepower, it makes in strategy and usage of tiles. Just like in original Neuroshima.
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Abdul Rahman Ibrahim
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It depends on the player. I personally think Outpost is more powerful to an extent. They can quickly place units and call for a premature battle to wound Moloch's HQ early in addition to running away.

I've played a game where Moloch ended up controlling 80% of the board but I still won because I caused more damage to their HQ. If bombs can hurt HQ, now that'll be REALLY scary. Just don't be afraid to place your units directly close the enemy HQ if you're playing Outpost and strike early, it'll swing to your favour in no time.
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Michal Herda
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If bombs damaged HQs? Come on, it's one damage less, one damage more anyways.
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CLARENCE TAN
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Richmond
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Re taking out the clown before they detonate, just to make sure, don't they have the ability to detonate as soon as they're placed on the board?

thank you guys for your comments, will try to go nuts and see if i can't hurt their HQ more than they can kill my ability to hurt their hq. If some Outpost have survived moloch's airstrikes and won, then it must be possible!
 
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King of the Dead
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NDjunkie wrote:
Re taking out the clown before they detonate, just to make sure, don't they have the ability to detonate as soon as they're placed on the board?


Not in my understanding of the rules.

When a battle occurs and the clown's initiative phase comes up it may either attack as normal or detonate.
As I understand it this is the only time it may detonate itself.
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Michal Herda
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Yeah. They cannot detonate as soon as they are placed on the board, that would make Moloch way overpowered.
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CLARENCE TAN
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ah, k. Well that's not too bad, but the extra toughness means devoting an extra attack to the dude or losing all nearby troops. hmmmmm
 
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Marcin Pędich
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Personally, I think Moloch is the strongest army, but not so much as to destroy the balance of the game.
It is undoubtedly the bomb in more than two player games. If the other players neglect Moloch in the first 1-2 battles its almost impossible to get through moloch's defensive units later on.
 
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Michal Herda
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Quote:
If the other players neglect Moloch in the first 1-2 battles

Well, it's their fault, then. The moment Moloch finishes creating a bunker, it is unmovable anymore, and can only move forwards. And forwards. And forwards.
 
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Michal Herda
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Offtopic for people who played Deus Ex:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fY5Np2axCA 1:50.
Considering this topic's subject, I couldn't prevent myself.
 
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John Raggio
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MichallusTG wrote:
Yeah. They cannot detonate as soon as they are placed on the board, that would make Moloch way overpowered.


So if they are initiative 2 they can detonate when phase 2 starts instead of attacking. If so, can other initiative 2 units take it out while it is exploding? I assume the explosion and the other attacks would be simultaneous?

John
 
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Rafał Wątorski
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Yes, all attacks in initiative 2 will happen simultaneously.
 
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John Raggio
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raphaell7 wrote:
Yes, all attacks in initiative 2 will happen simultaneously.


I guess my question really was, "Is the bomb detonation an attack, or is sort of an action?"

Thanks for the reply.

I played my son yesterday and in different turns he knocked out my clown and gauss cannon before they could even do anything ;-(
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