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Army of Frogs» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Effect of unbalanced draw of frogs rss

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Eric Miller
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This thread has been started to show the impact of an unbalanced draw.

Player 1 is red and Player 2 green

Player 1 Draw Red,Green
Player 2 Draw Red,Green

Player 1 places red as in the image below leaving 6 options for player 2

Player 1 draws Red



Player 2 places green at position 5 in the above image but it could be any of the positions it makes no difference

Player 2 draws Red



Player 1 jumps from X to Y then places R at X pinning player 2's green

Player 2 cannot move and can place at any of positions 1-4 on the above image. and chooses to place at position 4 again it really makes no difference. This is shown as position A on the image below

Player 2 draws Red



Player 1 jumps from x to y on the above image and places red at x Green is still pinned.

Player 1 Draws red

Player 2 only has red to play and can place in any of 13 positions so places in Position A on the above image.

Player 2 draws Green

Player 1 jumps from X to y on the image below and places green at A Player 2 is left with 4 options for jumping and is left with red to play.



At this point the red placed by player 2 can be linked into reds pond from any of the 4 positions effectively giving a 6 to 2 majority the next few draws are crucial to the outcome another red draw will most likely end the game.

Unfortunately the above Scenario has played out this way quite a number of times for me. In this mornings game I had 3 frogs on the table while Maddie had 8. Not much I could do.
 
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Jens www.spielefreun.de
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One of the reasons to use a third, "neutral" color when playing with 2 players.
 
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John Yianni
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Thanks for posting this step by step game,
Now I can see where you may not be playing the game as well as you can, and where you can improve.

Here is how I would start to play this game.

Draw: Player 1: Red Green. Player 2: Red Green

Player 1: adds Red, draws Red
Player 2: Should now add Red NOT Green. (This will force Player 1 to add Green) You don't know at this point if any more green frogs will come out so don't waste the opportunity to force your opponent to add a green frog.
Player 1: Will then move and add Green. (Most probably in a straight line to give Player 1 less movement options)
You didn't say what Player 1 draws at this point so I'm now in a dilemma as to how you should play from here on, as its very important to play according to what you opponent is holding
But I'll try.
Player 2: Can now move and add Green
Player 1: Cannot move without braking the string rule and will then need to add Red onto a green frog.
Player 2: Moves and adds red in a position that makes it difficult for Player 1 to add a red frog or move to connect.

It's hard for me to continue this game because I don't know what is being drawn and where they are being added and moved.
But I hope you can see how, (especially in a 2 Player game), every move and adding of a frogs is very important.
You should be attempting to make your opponent add your own frogs, and make them move and add in places that may not be good for them.
Even if there were only red frogs coming out of the bag in the first draws, then you should be in control of where they are added as your opponent will not be able to add any.
I will admit that if only red frogs came out for the entire game then that's definitely bad luck. Not much you can do except play Hive or Logan Stones instead.

Hope this helps
John
P.S I should also add that once all frogs are out, you should now be looking to set up a win where you have two or more channels to win, so that you're not waiting for your opponent to make a mistake but where your opponent has no way of blocking all your win channels.

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Eric Miller
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Thanks john,

I have tried adding opponents color and have again come unstuck, and it does depend heavily on what is drawn.

Quote:
P.S I should also add that once all frogs are out, you should now be looking to set up a win where you have two or more channels to win, so that you're not waiting for your opponent to make a mistake but where your opponent has no way of blocking all your win channels

Not sure I understand what you mean by 2 or more channels. Unless you are talking about something like a fork in chess but in this instance you have two points to which you could jump so it doesn't matter what your opponent moves to block you still have a winning jump.

PS I have placed a question under rules
 
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John Yianni
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edmil wrote:


Quote:
P.S I should also add that once all frogs are out, you should now be looking to set up a win where you have two or more channels to win, so that you're not waiting for your opponent to make a mistake but where your opponent has no way of blocking all your win channels

Not sure I understand what you mean by 2 or more channels. Unless you are talking about something like a fork in chess but in this instance you have two points to which you could jump so it doesn't matter what your opponent moves to block you still have a winning jump.

PS I have placed a question under rules


Sorry Eric I was not very clear.
Yes you're right, this is what I was meaning, as you said "two points to which you could jump so it doesn't matter what your opponent moves to block you still have a winning jump."
 
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Eric Miller
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Thanks john

Easier said than done.

While I regularly beat Maddie in Hive (and I am up in Logan Stones) she seems to have the winning edge with AoF

I will continue to persevere.


Quick question:

And maybe this is only applicable in a 2 player game.

Is there any particular reason that you went with a random drawing of frogs rather than each player drawing frogs of each color to start?

In a 2 player game each drawing 5 frogs of each color would pretty much ensure that all frogs hit the table every time. The only down side to this is every game for us would be a long game.

Maybe this could be a variant to the game.
 
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John Yianni
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edmil wrote:


Quick question:

And maybe this is only applicable in a 2 player game.

Is there any particular reason that you went with a random drawing of frogs rather than each player drawing frogs of each color to start?

In a 2 player game each drawing 5 frogs of each color would pretty much ensure that all frogs hit the table every time. The only down side to this is every game for us would be a long game.

Maybe this could be a variant to the game.


With AoF I wanted to keep away from the normal connect type games, where everyone has his own colour to start and are just playing a standard connect and block game. The extra element of controlling your opponents pieces,(where you add them, when you add them) I think makes the game much more interesting.
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We recently had a game where we had a frog concentration of 5:2 on the board, with the 6th one of one color coming down, but the second player could prevent the player with too many frogs from winning until very late in the endgame. Great analysis here, though.
 
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