Tom Stewart
United States
Leesburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have heard from an exerienced player or two that PDS fire can be absorbed by fighters. I've tried to find clarification in the rules and FAQs, but have had no luck.
It seems to me that the rules sort of go out of their way to designate a distinct section in the tactical action called PDS Fire (..or something like that), which comes before the Space Battles section. My thinking is that the fighters are onboard the carriers at all times except during the Space Battles section of the turn, thus it seems to me that they would not be available to take hits from the PDS units. Also, considering their cost, and the fact that only two are allowed per planet, they would seem to be overpriced if fighters can absorb their hits. It would seem that destroyers and cruisers being eliminated by PDS fire, prior to invasion, would be more equitable. It does make since however that Advanced Fighters could absorb the hits as they are never onboard a carrier.
Ok, so in case you haven't noticed I'm on the side of the argument that fighters can't absorb the hits, and I guess I'm trying to sell it.
So does anyone know for certain if fighters can absorb hits from a PDS?
How about Space Mines?
If so, can you tell me where you found the answer.
Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JohnnY C
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
Avatar
Good question, but the official answer was that fighters are in fact never "onboard" the carrier, they're only supported by one. So PDS may in fact by absorbed by fighters. You can say Fighters trump PDS, but PDS trump Destroyers which again trumps fighters...

I guess the main reason for having a seperate step is that PDS should shoot before the pre-combat step, strengthening the element explained above.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I can confirm the above also. Fighter can definitely take PDS hits. While fighters cannot move without a carrier, nothing in the rules suggests that they are "inside" the carrier or otherwise immune from things like this. They are ships, and unless a game effect specifically says "non-fighter ship" (like some objective cards and the definition of "control"), Fighters are considered ships for all purposes.

If you want a "thematic" explanation, which doesn't hold any water but can possibly explain why it works, even if the fighters are "really" on the ship, space is very, very, very, very big. PDS fire can represent probably a lot of things, such as long-range missiles, etc, but whatever the case, the Fighters absorbing the damage can simply be from the fighters scrambling to screen the fleet before the impact actually occurs. Again, this is just a "spaghetti sauce" argument, which itself has no weight in making the ruling, but can merely be chrome to explain the official word.

However, I can tell you that PsiComa (the previous poster) is definitely a veteran, and though veterans can be wrong sometimes (I know I am myself on occasion), in this case I can assure you that fighters CAN take PDS fire damage.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Julian
United States
Germantown
MD
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MrTom wrote:

How about Space Mines?
If so, can you tell me where you found the answer.
Thanks.


"After the PDS Fire step of an activation in which a
player moves ships into a system containing an opponent’s
space mines, he must roll 1 die individually for
each non-Fighter ship entering the system (the active
player must announce before each roll which ship he
is rolling for). For each roll of 9 or 10, the ship is
immediately hit.
After all ships have been rolled for,
remove one space mine token from the system and
resume the action."

--Triggering Space Mines, SE p.10
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Good point, I missed that part of the post

However, note that if the Carrier dies (EDIT: from a SPACE MINE), the fighters were also die (unless you happen to bring in an extra, empty carrier just in case)

EDIT: Clarification based on bill's post below, just to avoid confusion
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Norton
United States
Seymour
Tennessee
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just to clarify:

If the carrier is killed by a space mine then any fighters that now can't be supported are also lost.

But if that same carrier is lost in the first round of combat, no unsupported fighters are lost.

Just another reason to not play with space mines. :-)

Bill
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom Stewart
United States
Leesburg
Virginia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sounds like its pretty much unanimous. Unfortunately it sort of makes PDS units much less valuable, especially at $2 each. Maybe we will house-rule them to $1 each, ...or maybe we'll house-rule them to my original assumption , or maybe we'll just do it by the rules. I'll leave it to the group. Hopefully this question will make it to the next version of the FAQ.
In any case, thanks for your help.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Lewis
United States
Thornton
Colorado
flag msg tools
NFHS Football & Basketball
badge
Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've found in the expansion, huge fighter swarms are much less common, because there are a lot more Anti-Fighter rules: Automated Defense Turrets makes Destroyers cut through fighters like cheese, cards like Friendly Fire making having too many fighters a liability.

Think of it this way - in combat, fighters are generally just the space equivalent of meat shields: they take hits to protect the rest of the fleet, which tends to be more valuable in terms of combat ability. Thus, even if the PDS shots only clean out a few fighters, there are that many "free hits" taken away from the fleet, meaning your own fleet can start inflicting damage on the core of the fleet more quickly, rather than having them absorbed by Fighters.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Julian
United States
Germantown
MD
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MrTom wrote:
Sounds like its pretty much unanimous. Unfortunately it sort of makes PDS units much less valuable, especially at $2 each.


Space mines cost $2 each, and are destroyed whether they hit or not, so they're much more expensive, right?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Fowler
United States
cedar rapids
Iowa
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And much more powerful, IMHO. 20% fleet loss is huge. We nerfed them so minefields don't sprawl all over the map. Each race gets one to place in it's home system at the start of the game and is automatically replaced during the status phase if spent (keeps early sorties into the HS of others to a minimum) and we allow each race to build or rebuild one other space mine.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.