Recommend
9 
 Thumb up
 Hide
88 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

Space Hulk (third edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Critism of Games Workshop rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Firstly may I state that I have no connection whatsoever to Games Workshop. However, I am becoming increasingly annoyed by those that are using the re-issue of Space Hulk as an excuse to attack the fiscal policies of GW.
Space Hulk is an excellent game with miniatures far and above anything in the boardgame world of today.
Their detail (the miniatures) far surpasses anything available today and the gameplay is absolutely astounding (would that I could win just once as the Blood Angels!)
The compaints about about pricing are ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!
May I refer all the moaners to study Economics and especially the LAW OF MARGINAL UTILITY.
Everything has its price and excellence costs the most.
Viva GW !
Viva Space Hulk !
And a hearty thumbs down to all the detractors of this wonderful game and its producers.
P.S. I still think its an alien ripoff, but as a famous space admiral once said, "So say we all" !!!!
27 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah... But they are evil though...

Right?
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Evil - never in America - The land of the Great Buck !!!!!!!!!1
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
....or even in the UK - the land of the ever - disappearing pound!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Kluessendorf
United States
Waukesha
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
The cause of, and the solution to, all of life's problems. - HS
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

I agree with you - I also don't understand the criticism. As a wargame fan, I am used to games going out of print - even ones by the best companies (and in much smaller quantities than GW's Space Hulk). Maybe they make a reprint P500 list, maybe they don't. And often the game then becomes collectible and costs more than it originally did.

I don't remember seeing this same criticism for Axis & Allies expensive Anniversary Edition that is now out of print and selling above retail second-hand. Or Risk Black Ops which sold for $300. I even remember when Agricola first came out people paying $70 for copies - to me Space Hulk comes with a lot more "stuff" in the box than Agricola for only a little more cost (regardless of which one you think is the better game).

Everyone should just take a deep breath and relax - it won't be too long before every 3rd forum isn't Space Hulk related and people will stop complaining about why some people will pay large amounts of their own money for painted figures (even though no one says anything about someone buying an expensive, painted chess set - which the last time I checked was also still a game).

Space Hulk will settle into its rightful place in the rankings, whatever that may be...

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt Weihs
United States
Tacoma
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think most of the complaints about GW stem not from the pricing of this one game, but from a long history of predatory marketing practices. If GW came out of left field with this game I doubt we'd see the complaints that we see now. Unfortunately, the pricing of Space Hulk comes at the end of a long line of other over-priced re-gurgitated games. What version is Warhammer Fantasy working on now? What version of 40K? Why does every re-release of these titles make the last one obsolete? How can a company justify a $20.00 price tag for a 30mm miniature? They are good, but not that good.

There are a lot of unhappy ex-GW customers out there and regardless of your econ. cred. they know they don't like GW (Law of Marginal Utility?). You can spout economic theory all day, but when it gets right down to it GW has irked a lot of gamers out there. More than any other game company I am aware of.

I remember in the early days I would regularly read in White Dwarf about the evil American game company, TSR, and how their reproduction of the D&D books and continual release of module after module showed that they were the capitalist swine that they were. Yet, in the end, GW has far surpassed TSR commercially. The irony is amusing and I really wish I had a time machine so I could show what became of Citadel/Games Workshop to the folks that wrote those letters to the magazine.

Personally, I think Space Hulk is a great game and the price tag isn't THAT much higher than games such as Europe Engulfed. Space Hulk, however, suffers from the prior practices of its publisher and even if the game itself isn't offensive the marketing practices of the publisher are, and it doesn't take a degree in economics to realize this.

(donning the asbestos suit)
27 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dear Kurt, thank you for your reasoned argument, however it flies in the face of economics. A good product commands a good price ! Unfortunately many boardgamers can't see the rationale. A PRODUCT DICTATES ITS OWN PLACE IN THE MARKETPLACE
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Kluessendorf
United States
Waukesha
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
The cause of, and the solution to, all of life's problems. - HS
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Quote:
How can a company justify a $20.00 price tag for a 30mm miniature?


They're called Hallmark ornaments and my wife buys a bunch of new ones every year!
18 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom

Carmel
New York
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Sturmkraehe wrote:
...What version is Warhammer Fantasy working on now? What version of 40K? Why does every re-release of these titles make the last one obsolete? How can a company justify a $20.00 price tag for a 30mm miniature? They are good, but not that good.

...


A product is worth whatever people will pay for it! Why should they lower the price if the product sells? Would you go into work tomorrow and offer to take a pay cut just to be nice to your employer?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dear Andy, I fail to see what Risk Black Ops or Agricola has to do with Space Hulk - however I do agree that it will settle into its BGG ranking whatever I, or you may say.
I do, however, think that GWs fiscal policies should not influence in any way wether Space Hulk is a good or a bad boardgame.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Stoker
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Space Hulk thing fascinates me. I am a better economist then board gamer--only recently moved from historical miniatures to board games, but have been an economist for years. Yes, they can ask for whatever the market will bear for their games. Yes, they can print as many as they want, and limiting the print run reduces their own risk. The only thing that seems genuinely questionable, and I have really thought about it (knowing nothing about GW, Space Hulk, any of this stuff, I am new) is the "this is it! if you want it this is your last chance!" thing. Why would a company not meet demand, I wondered--that is, if the game sold out (and by that I mean really sold out, no stock getting dusty at stores), why not print more? It is much like the recent Beatles Remastered CD launch, where they were selling the mono CD's as a box only, and as a limited release. They sold out in pre-order, and Apple Records promptly announced they would make more, and sell them (it looks like) through Christmas. I mean, why not, why leave money on the table, to be picked up by the boardgame (or music collector) equivalent of scalpers?

The first thing seems clear--announcing "limited, one time only" increases demand--people on the fence buy it, and scalper wannabes buy it. The second--why not just print more--is less clear. It makes future "limited" things more real--if they have a reputation of printing more, no one will trust them. Clearly this is not a concern of Apple Records, for example (only one Beatles). Maybe that is why--GW is willingly losing money now to make more on a later release. Another possibility is that there really are a lot of copies sitting in gaming stores, and imperfect distribution is the problem. I don't know. I hope to hear others' thoughts, I am curious.

And I have never played or seen the game, which sort of bums me out. I have no idea what the fuss is over. I did order Chaos in the Old Worlds, though (along with Dominion and Carcassonne) to get a taste of it all.

This is a great site, and I appreciate the time you all put in.
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Well said TK.
Would that more like you would understand the rules govening retail economics. I salute you sir.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dear Jim, thanks for your comments - but as you've never played the game ---- your bum is out!!!!!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt Weihs
United States
Tacoma
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Dear Kurt, thank you for your reasoned argument, however it flies in the face of economics. A good product commands a good price ! Unfortunately many boardgamers can't see the rationale. A PRODUCT DICTATES ITS OWN PLACE IN THE MARKETPLACE


You miss my point. GW's reputation for price gouging has created a vocal group of dissatisfied customers. It doesn't matter what the product is. The very fact it is made by Games Workshop will attract a certain amount of negativity based on their past practice of taking advantage of customer loyalty. $100 games are nothing. I have a $600.00 GO set, but it wasn't made by a company that has pissed off every 10th gamer from here to Aberdeen so you don't hear about people griping about the high cost of Kaya Go boards in the Western USA. Economic theory is great to a point. You are expecting the general public here to shut up because they aren't conforming to economic theory???

Unfortunately, the Hallmark comparison fails to work here as well. Ultimately, this is not about a $100 price tag. It's about GW and the marketing practices I touch on in my first e-mail. It's about buyer perception and that really has very little to do with rationale. neh?
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dear Kurt, study the LAW of MARGINAL UTILITY - try to understand and appreciate it - it's what you live by - wether you understand it or not - how do you think the price of a loaf of bread is arrived at???
gamers are NO EXCEPTION TO ECONOMICS.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Kluessendorf
United States
Waukesha
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
badge
The cause of, and the solution to, all of life's problems. - HS
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kurt, I just don't understand how they are that different from anyone else. Whether it is the latest expansion for Magic, or a different Heroclix series, or the latest version of D&D, or the latest Guitar Hero, etc. ad nauseum. Granted I'm not familiar with GW's past practices, but it seems to me, that they aren't much different from a lot of companies out there. Or is it that you are disappointed in them because you originally thought they weren't "one of those companies"?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt Weihs
United States
Tacoma
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
A product is worth whatever people will pay for it! Why should they lower the price if the product sells? Would you go into work tomorrow and offer to take a pay cut just to be nice to your employer?


My apologies, I should have left my own editorializing out of it. I am more than cognizant of this and while I don't spend money on WH I would not begrudge others from doing so.

Again, my point is not that the game is overpriced. I'm just stating that his point about people complaining about the high price of the game is not so much about economics but about customer frustration.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kurt, if you've got it, spend it - that's what life's about.
I've got it - I choose to spend it on GW.
Each to his own.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Hamilton
United Kingdom
Livingston
West Lothian
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It's past one a.m. in the UK. Good night & God bless you all
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kurt Weihs
United States
Tacoma
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Dear Kurt, study the LAW of MARGINAL UTILITY - try to understand and appreciate it - it's what you live by - wether you understand it or not - how do you think the price of a loaf of bread is arrived at???
gamers are NO EXCEPTION TO ECONOMICS.


Oy vey. I know what the Law of Marginal Utility is (and most other first year econ class laws for that matter). What you seem to not understand is the "Law of a pissed off customer base."

If you are going to characterize those who disagree with your viewpoint in the negative light that you do in your first post I suggest you try and understand their viewpoint. Otherwise what is the point of this thread? To point your finger at the unbelievers and cry "Sinner?"

I don't disagree with the price of Space Hulk, it will sell for whatever the market will bear and, if anything, GW knows their market very well. My point is that you seem to be amazed that there are people out there who passionately think SH is overpriced. You seem to be shaking your head and saying "how dare these people break the law of marginal utility and condemn the price of this game." It's like a police officer at the end of a long straightaway shaking his head and wondering why the motorists don't understand the posted speed limit. Perhaps my perception of your stance is incorrect?
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The complaints of the pricing are far from "rubbish".
GW makes their minis, especially the the plastic ones at a very low cost even after sculptor fees. The metal ones arent that far past.

The only real factor is that GW believes that they can continue to escalate the price and turn a blind eye to the gradual increased drop off of fans and the gradual increase in negativity.

Currently they can get away with it still. That will not allways be the case.

As for the quality of the sculpts. News flash. Their sculpts have been equalled or surpassed by several companies now since around 95. Reapers minis in particular blew away anything GW was fielding at 1/3rd the cost for metal figures. Heartbreaker was doing a darn good job and on the same scale as GW of equal quality while Ral Parth and Rakam caught up in sculpting finesse. Ragnaroks minis have been hammering that supposed quality for several years now.

GWs plastic minis though are, with the exception of the Space Hulk models, still some of the most sturdy and durable figures around. And this quality of plastic lends very well to painting. Which is the secondary thrust of GW games.

Games Workshop has built up a reputation of solid rules and quality figures, backed by excellent customer service and followed up with game support surpassed only by TSR. And GW will have overtaken even that in a few years. (They would have already had not White Dwarf slipped slowly.)

GW gets attacked because they are doing something very wrong.
GW gets support because they are doing something very right.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Outlaw
United Kingdom
Devizes
Wiltshire
flag msg tools
badge
The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The problem with a thread like this is that it will actually attract the criticism that the OP hates so much.

My personal take on the situation is that I don't really give a damn what GW do. If I want something, and I can afford it, I will buy it. If I can't afford it, I forget about it.

I have been waiting for a cool new Azhag model on wyvern for a while now, and I got wind that a new one would be released. Awesome, I'm thinking. It will be like GW's really rather splendid High Elf dragon kit. But no... They've released a full metal cast with a retail price of £50. I refuse to pay that.

Does it bother me that I'm not going to get my Azhag? Yeah. But only as much as it bothers me that I don't drive a Porsche.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul O'Connor
United States
San Marcos
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Evil is cool. Plus they get the best uniforms.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Galaxy is Just Packed!
United States
Madison
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If anything they showed FFG what they could get away with.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thats not a good thing.

bryanwinter wrote:
If anything they showed FFG what they could get away with.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.