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Tichu» Forums » Rules

Subject: Holding the Phoenix and ending as 4th rss

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bestia immonda
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If an opponent ends as 1st and your buddy ends as 2nd, is a viable strategy and OK with rules to intentionally NOT finishing 3rd when you only have negative points in hand ( Phoenix ) that you'll passs to the first finishing player?
 
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David Fair
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Yes.

Although, cards in hand pass to opponents (no matter who goes out first) while cards on table go to whoever went out first (could be your partner), so this works even if your partner goes out first.
 
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Mark McEvoy
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It's probably occasionally a viable strategy, but in practice it would be exceedingly rare. You're also giving away your pile of tricks taken so far (which you'd keep if you went out 3rd)...

It's perfectly fine by the rules (provided you broke no other rule in so doing - like refusing to heed a Wish if there was a Phoenix-involving legal play that would have satisfied the wish).
 
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bestia immonda
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BeyondMonopoly wrote:
Yes.

Although, cards in hand pass to opponents (no matter who goes out first) while cards on table go to whoever went out first (could be your partner), so this works even if your partner goes out first.


thanks for pointing out also this rule that I've overlooked.
Well we're a bunch of rookies and ending the game with the strong phoenix still in hand seems stupid to me!
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Andrew Brown
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To be a little more precise, I want to look at the different scenarios:
I am new to Tichu, so please correct me if any of this is wrong.


1)You intentionally finish 4th when your partner finished 2nd. In this scenario, you will lose your taken tricks, your remaining hand cards, and do not collect your opponent's hand cards (the opponent that finishes 3rd ahead of you). As long as these 3 do not total more than 25 points, it is a viable strategy to finish last.


2)You intentionally finish 4th when your partner finished 1st. This scenario has the benefit of saving your taken tricks (they go to the person finishing 1st). HOWEVER, by allowing your opponent to finish 3rd, you lose out on the opportunity to steal his/her taken tricks. You still lose your hand points. You still don't get your opponent's hand points. So, if the 3rd player's taken tricks, his/her hand points, and your hand points are not worth more than 25 (the value of the Phoenix), intentionally finishing 4th is a viable strategy.
 
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Timothy Hunt
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thatmarkguy wrote:
like refusing to heed a Wish if there was a Phoenix-involving legal play that would have satisfied the wish


Just want to clarify this.

A wish calls for a natural card, and you must play if you have a legal play with that card. Only playing of the natural card will fulfil the wish.

How the phoenix interacts with this:

Suppose I play 12345 and wish for a 6

If you have 34567, obviously you must play.

If you have 345P7, you are not required to play, because you do not have a natural 6. Furthermore, if you choose to play, doing so does not fulfil with wish, as you have not played a natural 6. The wish remains unfulfilled and if someone has, say, 56789, they would still have to play that.

If you have 34P67, then you have a legal play that includes a natural 6. You must play it, forcing you to play the phoenix.


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Greg Jones
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Yes, it's legal.

It's also rare as has previously been explained.

It's even more rare that I've been counting points well enough that I know when it's a good move.

If an opponent went out first, you're probably better off trying to intentionally lose a trick with the Phoenix by playing it over a low card or as a lead. That way, you can get the other opponent to take the -25 points, which go to their team whether he finishes or not. Yet you still might have a chance to finish 3rd, and take your tricks and the opponent's leftover cards.

It still only makes sense to do this if you don't have many points in your tricks and hand and you deduce that your remaining opponent doesn't have many either. If there are a lot of points there, it probably isn't worth the risk to try to win despite an extra lost trick.

Of course, they might not take the bait, but then, no loss. You and your partner get to play out all of your low singles while the opponent refuses to play while the trick with the Phoenix is live.
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bestia immonda
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Thanks buddies! That was our very first Tichu game, and we were n00bs of course. Nowadays, with several Tichu games under the belt, the Phoenix always hits the table.
Tichu has become one of the favs among my fellow "not-too-heavy-pls" gamers!
Cheerio!
 
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