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Subject: Why All The Hate? rss

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Jim Patching
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I don’t think I’ve ever seen a company generate so much flak and I genuinely don’t know why.

First off I’ll admit that I’m a Games Workshop fan. I grew up on their games as a kid and the likes of Talisman and Heroquest were what got me into gaming. Like a lot of people, I didn’t like the direction the company took in the 90s - moving away from board games, stopping their support for other company’s products and turning White Dwarf into an in-house catalogue. But you know what – instead of nurturing a frothing hatred that would last for years until the dawn of the internet age when I could unleash my vitriol on the company …. I just stopped buying their stuff (for at least 10 years).

From what some of the haters are saying you’d think Games Workshop were forcing people at gunpoint to buy their games. No, people buy them because they like them. They don’t need rescuing from the hobby. They don’t latch onto kids, get as much money out of them as possible and then cast them aside when they’re done – some people drop out of the Games Workshop hobby, some people stick with it.

And talking about kids – Games Workshop gets a load of flak for appealing to kids like that’s a bad thing. Where do you think future gamers are going to come from? Should hobby games be kept away from kids or something? When I first played Talisman and discovered how great board games could be I was a kid! I’d imagine in Britain at least Games Workshop have done more for introducing people to hobby gaming than any other company.

A load of the complaints thrown at Games Workshop are just nonsense or completely out of date. The one that keeps cropping up is that they constantly discontinue models, forcing people to buy new miniatures. Around seven years ago myself and about a dozen of my mates decided to get back into 40K after avoiding GW products for years. We each built up our own army from scratch and since then approximately zero models for any of us have become obsolete. Sure, they might bring out newer sculpts for the same unit, and generally speaking the newer sculpt will look better than the older one, but the old models have still been just as usable as they were before. The one example people keep citing for this is the case of the Squats, a whole army that just disappeared. Setting aside the fact that the Squats were crap anyway – how long ago was this? Was Margaret Thatcher still in power? If you really want to use your Space Dwarf models you can just use the Imperial Guard army list anyway (that’s what one of my mates did with a squat army he collected long after they were discontinued).

Most of the goodies from the Golden Age of Games Workshop are back in print now. Fantasy Flight have done a great job re-publishing some old GW games under licence and Games Workshop themselves produced a new version of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay a couple of years ago ( and gave it more support than pretty much any other role playing game apart from the big daddy that is D&D).

Their background fluff is being developed like never before and is moving away from the more juvenile direction it was going in the 90s. It’s only recently that I’ve started reading Games Workshop novels, having avoided them for years because as a rule of thumb novels related to games tend to be stinkers. I’ve only read Dan Abnett’s books so far (and to be fair he is normally considered to be the best 40K writer around), but his books really are awesome – Eisenhorn is worth reading even if you’re not interested in the games.

Games Workshop miniatures aren’t cheap but then hobby gaming as a whole isn’t very cheap. You can get a perfectly playable, flexible Warhammer army for the same cost as Descent + a few of its expansions. In any case, you don't have to (and aren't really expected to) buy a whole army in one fell swoop. It's something you build up over time, adding to it as you go. The rules for the Warhammer games aren’t the best around, but I do think they’re getting better with each edition. To be honest, if you’re getting involved in either of the Warhammer games you’re getting into them as much for the modelling and collecting aspect as the actual gaming aspect anyway.

Look, I don’t expect everyone to like Games Workshop games – they’re not for everyone. I’ll be honest – I don’t like cauliflower because it looks like brains but I don’t stand in the fruit and veg section of a supermarket haranguing customers who choose to buy that product.

So why all this hate? Maybe it’s frustration caused by thinking what might have been had Games Workshop sticked with board games?
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Anthony Simons
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The Games Workshop that brought you into the hobby are not the Games Workshop of today. The boardgames that FFG produce are not Games Workshop of any era - there are great differences.

I don't hate them, not at all. Yet I cannot help but feel that the consumer frequently gets stung by their business model. The first thing that put me off them was their edging away from the general hobby gaming retail outlet to their more specialised format. i was especially distraught at the changes to White Dwarf magazine. It took a while for me to go back and have a look.

What I saw when I returned was great, but they did discontinue some of the elements I liked and kept reissuing new rulesets for the rest of the elements I liked.

You are correct about the models to an extent; nothing stopping you using old models with newer rulesets. Two problems with this arethat new rulesets cost and that if I'm going to use models that look odd amongst others I might as well throw in a slack handful of, say, wooden cubes and say they're an IG Armoured Regiment.

Having said all that, I'd like to get back into Epic. The rules changes that came about twelve years ago were great, and I expect they've improved on them in later versions (which I duly note have passed into obsolescence themselves).
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Ian Klinck
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I haven't bought any GW stuff in years, but my impression of them (carried over from that time) is "good games, good quality stuff, but very expensive".
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Daric Morris
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I think there are two specific items that you can point your finger at:

1) The stance and tactics they have taken toward retailers. They have had several policies that pissed people off here over the years, from cutting out anyone that discounts their products to insisting that stores buy a certain amount. And this is where the majority of my ill-will comes from.

2) A gradual move from a more freewheeling, anything goes approach to more emphasis on tournament style competitive play. Back in the early days, before army lists and limited model availablity, I had some great games with my marines and landspeeder made out of a deodorant stick (from an WD article) going against Eldar with modified styrofoam balls as Eldar Grav tanks.
Over time they attempted to standarize things, so two people who had never met before could play a game fairly easily. A noble goal to be sure. But I think that psychology infected the fans who got more competitive, trying to squeak any advantage they could from the rules. Because, let's face it, once the armies are on the table, there is not much strategy after that. It's all army creation and the roll of the dice.
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James
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GW products are too expensive for my taste ($45 for a model and you need how many?) and I can't be bothered spending my time painting models (more expense).
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Sean Dooley
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Kudos, Jim, for the support; it's about time someone did!

I can't help but think that there are a LOT of people hanging on to 15-20 year old grudges. It seems a bit banal to do that.

In fact, I'd argue that using older models mixed with the newer armies is almost a vogue thing to do. I know I love seeing that old RT Apothecary on the field (granted, the old Rhino models just suck); plainly, there are plenty of ways to get your old models in an army.

I mean, for crap's sake, GW reprinted a long OOP game in Space Hulk that was fetching HIGH prices online, and people are bitching because they didn't print enough. Guess what, boys and girls? It wasn't in print AT ALL this time last year. Sure, the success of Space Hulk could potentially lead GW to do another splash (read: limited) release--who wouldn't love to see Warhammer Quest or a new edition of Blood Bowl (even though it IS still in print--but at the same time, they could be discouraged by the irrational ire heaped on by all the complainers, and decide to never do a splash reprint again.

Oh, and like Jim said: it's not like GW isn't trying to flush out their universe and keep their product strong. They aren't releasing novels all the time. They don't release additional Apocalypse formations in White Dwarf or online. It's not like GW liscensed a lot of their old board game products to another company so they COULD get high quality reprints by people whose primary product is boardgames.

Oh, by the way, that was sarcasm. They ARE doing all those things (thanks Sheldon!).
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Richard Dewsbery
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I think that GW was at it's most "evil" in the mid-90s. The beancounters had taken over management of the company from the gamers, and it's hard to find anyone who says a good thing about them then. The occasional release of a good product was almost by acident, and usually swiftly killed.

They are expensive, and their products tend to go up in price (or down in quality) from time to time. But that money is necessay to support the behemoth that is their retail chain, and it's hard to argue that you get good customer service both from the stores and from Head Office nowadays. One thing that really sets them apart from other retail outfits is how they manage to employ people who are enthusiastic and knowledgable about their products. Try going into Currys Digital and having a meaningful exchange with someone about the merits of two TV systems, or about the products coming to market over the next three months!

Epic 40k was one of their finest games. It coincided with the time when their games got minimal support, the usual GW customers hated the lack of lots of fiddly special rules, and it was given a quick death. I've tried to like Epic Armageddon, but there's something about it that doesn't thrill me like E40k.
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You can only be betrayed by your loved ones. My disappointment with GW only comes from the fact that i love an awful lot of the games they produced over the years. I've been sad to see the board games being abandoned, or before that, badly redesigned (space hulk 2nd ed, talisman 3rd ed). The shift in 40k from troops skirmish to tank battles isn't my thing either. The change of direction taken by the game towards younger gamer and streamlined competitive play has several positives like great for the young players, active tournament scene, but for me, it made it a less interesting game. I find 4th ed plays like a giant rock-paper-scissors, not sure whether 5th is that different.

On the point of obsoleted miniatures being out of date, that may be so, but i can ensure you that my heavy weapon plague marines haven't been legal from 2nd ed Chaos codex onwards to 4th ed at least. Same goes for all my non close-combat World Eaters. In regards to my cultists and beastmen, it's more recent: the Lost and the Damned list made them playable, but i think it's illegal now isn't it?

In the end, i don't hate them at all. I simply regret what, to me, was a golden age of miniature gaming that the company didn't manage to maintain. And who knows, despite the pricetag, maybe the re-release of Space Hulk marks a return to some of the old ways? One can only hope.
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Jim Patching
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The 5th Edition of 40K has made bog standard troops far more important. To be honest, 3rd and 4th edition didn't really seem to favour tanks to me. I play Imperial Guard and so have access to loads of the things but they always seemed a little too fragile to my mind. Units with lots of wounds rather than lots of armour always seemed to have more staying power.
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Jamie Herbert
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I'm not necessarily for or against GW at this point, but I feel the need to add a couple of points here. First off as one of the bigger companies, GW will always be resigned to a degree of flak, just like WOTC.This is in part due to their popularity, after all if you hate the direction Mongoose took with RQ, don't play mongoose runequest and you can more likely find support in another game boycot D&D4e and you may cut up to 1/2 of the potential players in an area who will follow D&D for good or ill. Face it GW is the microsoft of miniatures gaming. Is every move Microsoft made inherrantly evil or wrong? No,no more than apple who engages in as many questionable activities. But the size of Windows makes people afraid to make the leap to mac/linux. same is true with Warhammer.

Secondly they are a big company who sells a lifestyle much like Disney and MTV, Gamers see themselves as part of a comunity and while moves like producing a great product and then axing it almost imediately, threatening to sue people for IP infringement (See John Wick VS GW) and price raising for profit) are understandable even acceptable in buisness, out image of game companies and gamers is one of people in our corner, that enjoy the hobby jsut as we do, It's kind of like when Disney sues a small day care for IP infringement. same idea.
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Mick Weitz
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Well Jim, I think it is an indication of a seedy underbelly of gamer mentality. Most gamers I know are awesome people, but they are also awesome at being derisive, snarky, and superior about certain things. GW makes a great bad guy, so many gamers make sport of them. I find it quite lame, because there are so many more deserving villianous corporations in the world.

I mean really, GW is the ultimate evil? As evil as Gargamel maybe... As someone said above, (I'll paraphrase) "GW makes high quality, cool stuff, and it's expensive."

Good Gaming~! Mick
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Todd Pytel
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panzer-attack wrote:
And talking about kids – Games Workshop gets a load of flak for appealing to kids like that’s a bad thing.

Reaching out to the young blood is one thing, sucking every last dime out of them is another. My friends and I used to play GW games back in the old days of 40K Rogue Trader and WFB 2nd ed. It was still expensive then, but between the four of us we had the few books there were, pooled figs, proxied some pennies, and managed to play a bit. We also played a ton of Blood Bowl and a fair bit of Advanced Space Crusade, which (compared to WFB/40K) were reasonably priced.

Then WFB 3rd ed hit. New core rules? Big box, very expensive, and it was just a crappy paperback. And no magic. That was in another big box. And forget about that one copy of Warhammer Armies we all shared - now we'd each need our own books. It would have cost us around $200 in 1990 just to upgrade our books - that being about 6 months worth of what we could have collectively saved for new figs. And at the time, there were very few plastics out there to bulk up an army quickly. Even at the wise old age of 12, we could see we had priced out of the hobby. If we wanted to keep playing, we wouldn't be able to afford anything else that we were interested in. None of us ever played again.

So yeah... I guess I'm still sore about that. It was a pretty shitty thing to do, though TSR was doing essentially the same thing with AD&D2 at the time. It actually looks to be a little better now, with the starter sets, battleforce packs, and better availability of plastics. But WFB/40K are still phenomenally expensive games for kids. And if a kid does get hooked and funnels all his cash in that direction, that means he won't be trying any other games, which is good for GW but not so good for the hobby. It would be hard to make WFB/40K much more affordable, though perhaps there could be some basic army construction info freely available online. But the lack of reasonably priced standalone games doesn't give kids that like the minis any other avenue to get into GW games.

In the end, they sell product, so they must find enough kids with money or parents willing to provide their kids with money to keep doing what they've been doing for the last 20 years. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. If my kids get interested in minis when they get older, I'll be steering them toward something like Heroscape or Battletech for a minis fix. Their allowance and birthday money could be buying them a lot better variety (and arguably quality) of gaming experience than blowing it all on two boxes of plastic terminators.
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Lee Wardle
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I don't hate GW. I just remember them as Games Workshop, whereas now they are more like Game Workshop.

Even the specialist games that they still do are mail order only.

I remember going into a GW shop and there being some Warhammer going on, a game of Blood Bowl (first edition), someone sat in the corner playing Chainsaw Warrior with people cheering them on, staff giving a demo of Dark Future.

I went into a store recently and all that they had was Warhammer, Warhammer 40k and Lord of the Rings.

It was also empty
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Bobb Beauchamp
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GW gets a lot of flak for remembering that they are a company first, and a game company second. Without a reliable, predictable, income stream, they always run the risk of being the "whatever happened to Games Workshop" company.

WotC revolutionized the game market when it demonstrated that the game community could support an ongoing product that customers would continually invest in. GW was the first to implement WotC model on a non-collectible, large scale game. Really, up until that point, game companies printed new versions of games when they were needed, such as when the existing print run ran out of supply, and there was a clear in-game benefit for an updated version. What GW did in the 90s was build updated versions into their business model. While GW had always introduced new models, this change was integral to the product, and included everything...models, rules, accessories, etc. What this did from a business perspective was essentially allow GW to retool their product every cycle, essentially making it new every X number of years.

While this angered a lot of players, many of them seemed to forget some key aspects of this plan: It didn't change their existing product at all. If you had an older version of a game, nothing prevented you from continuing to play it. Nothing forced anyone to update their armies and rules. Only if you wanted to play in GW official events would you have a need for updated lists and rules. GW bet that these players were already going to update their armies anyway, and I think they won that bet.

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Jim Patching
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plpompey wrote:
I don't hate GW. I just remember them as Games Workshop, whereas now they are more like Game Workshop.

Even the specialist games that they still do are mail order only.

I remember going into a GW shop and there being some Warhammer going on, a game of Blood Bowl (first edition), someone sat in the corner playing Chainsaw Warrior with people cheering them on, staff giving a demo of Dark Future.

I went into a store recently and all that they had was Warhammer, Warhammer 40k and Lord of the Rings.

It was also empty


Go into any Games Workshop during the school holidays and you'll find it absolutely packed with kids playing the games. Sure, it's a bit of a pain in the ass for folks like me who occasionally pop into the shop during lunch hours to pick up the odd model, but it's great that they're getting so many people in there. If my FLGS could do that with other hobby games it'd be awesome. But they can't.

Something I forgot to add in the original post - I actually think Games Workshop is good as a hobby for kids in that it promotes creativity and encourages you to get involved in a social scene (far more than playing on a console does anyway).
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Chris Linneman
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tppytel wrote:

Then WFB 3rd ed hit. New core rules? Big box, very expensive, and it was just a crappy paperback. And no magic. That was in another big box. And forget about that one copy of Warhammer Armies we all shared - now we'd each need our own books. It would have cost us around $200 in 1990 just to upgrade our books - that being about 6 months worth of what we could have collectively saved for new figs. And at the time, there were very few plastics out there to bulk up an army quickly. Even at the wise old age of 12, we could see we had priced out of the hobby. If we wanted to keep playing, we wouldn't be able to afford anything else that we were interested in. None of us ever played again.

So yeah... I guess I'm still sore about that. It was a pretty shitty thing to do, though TSR was doing essentially the same thing with AD&D2 at the time.


Honestly, you can't expect a for-profit company to do anything other than attempt to increase profits. The notion that incentivizing the sale of more product is a "pretty shitty thing to do" is sort of absurd.

tppytel wrote:
In the end, they sell product, so they must find enough kids with money or parents willing to provide their kids with money to keep doing what they've been doing for the last 20 years.


I used to work for GW, and trust me, there are more than enough parents willing to provide their kids with such money. Oh wait, you don't have to take my word for it, you just have to notice that they are still running quite a successful business.
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John Lopez
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kingbobb wrote:
GW gets a lot of flak for remembering that they are a company first, and a game company second. Without a reliable, predictable, income stream, they always run the risk of being the "whatever happened to Games Workshop" company.

WotC revolutionized the game market when it demonstrated that the game community could support an ongoing product that customers would continually invest in. GW was the first to implement WotC model on a non-collectible, large scale game. Really, up until that point, game companies printed new versions of games when they were needed, such as when the existing print run ran out of supply, and there was a clear in-game benefit for an updated version. What GW did in the 90s was build updated versions into their business model. While GW had always introduced new models, this change was integral to the product, and included everything...models, rules, accessories, etc. What this did from a business perspective was essentially allow GW to retool their product every cycle, essentially making it new every X number of years.

While this angered a lot of players, many of them seemed to forget some key aspects of this plan: It didn't change their existing product at all. If you had an older version of a game, nothing prevented you from continuing to play it. Nothing forced anyone to update their armies and rules. Only if you wanted to play in GW official events would you have a need for updated lists and rules. GW bet that these players were already going to update their armies anyway, and I think they won that bet.



The same is true of Steve Jackson Games (including the large group of haters). They are both companies that make product based on their business model and not the "the games business is a great way to make a large fortune... into a small one" garbage.

Funny thing about success: people with try to tear down that success if it conflicts with their internal model of how something should be done. Games Workshop puts out their product and their fans buy it. As far as I'm concerned that is far as it goes unless they do something to drive away the customers.

Note I didn't say "drive away their detractors", but "the customers". Just as was pointed out earlier, Games Workshop is the Microsoft of the miniatures gaming space. Even if I don't like the current crop of products (and I don't really care for most of it right now) I have to respect a company that can remain profitable for my entire lifetime and has a dedicated fan base. Note that at no point do they require anyone become a fan and they seem content enough to suffer the insults in silence, while they count the money.

So many game publishers succeed only because they have a "hit" and then fail when that hit fails. It is hard work to keep a business based on gaming going, yet some companies do. Those that have done it the longest are also those who are the most hated by those who want to see more innovation and variety.

Here's a hint: innovation and variety are risky and a poor model for long term financial stability. If you are a startup, you can take the shot in the dark. When you just want to earn your keep, you become as boring and predictable as Microsoft.

I don't lament that fact because there are plenty of crazies willing to start new game companies and throw their ideas in the ring.
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Todd Pytel
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QBert80 wrote:
Honestly, you can't expect a for-profit company to do anything other than attempt to increase profits. The notion that incentivizing the sale of more product is a "pretty shitty thing to do" is sort of absurd.

I don't think it's absurd to hold companies to different standards when they market their product to kids rather than primarily to adults. Companies like Disney get lambasted all the time for similar things. And again, as someone who enjoys many aspects of gaming, I don't appreciate how GW's core games, by virtue of their time and money requirements, tend to monopolize kids' gaming opportunities. We played lots of stuff back in the day besides GW games. It would be very difficult to do that now.

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I used to work for GW, and trust me, there are more than enough parents willing to provide their kids with such money. Oh wait, you don't have to take my word for it, you just have to notice that they are still running quite a successful business.

Um... yes. That's exactly what I said. They're obviously quite successful. That doesn't mean they're a good citizen in the hobby or that they're respectful of their customers. Some of us remember a time in the gaming industry where that was expected, rather than exceptional.
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Jim Patching
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I don't think their product is specifically aimed at kids. For a period during the 90s perhaps it was, but less so now. It's certainly true that kids like it, but the setting is plenty mature enough for the older gamer and the rules are starting to get a lot more tactical.
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tppytel wrote:

Reaching out to the young blood is one thing, sucking every last dime out of them is another.

In the end, they sell product, so they must find enough kids with money or parents willing to provide their kids with money to keep doing what they've been doing for the last 20 years. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. If my kids get interested in minis when they get older, I'll be steering them toward something like Heroscape or Battletech for a minis fix. Their allowance and birthday money could be buying them a lot better variety (and arguably quality) of gaming experience than blowing it all on two boxes of plastic terminators.



Oh, come on now. You're saying GW is the one sucking every last hobby dime out of kids? Really? Really? I'd wager that M:tG, Yu-gi-oh, Pokemon, and whatever other CCG is presently popular have sucked more cash from kids than GW could ever hope to.

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I don't hate GW. I just remember them as Games Workshop, whereas now they are more like Game Workshop.


Now this is a sentiment I can really understand. I can see how some people would be a tad jaded about this, but only if GW refused to license stuff out to other companies. That clearly isn't the case. We're seeing FFG bring out some of the older non-miniature based games (Chaos Marauders) and I think that's a really good thing. Also, FFG seems keen--and they should be--to expand the license with things products like Chaos in the Old World and Warhammer: Invasion. I happen to like this direction. I doubt we'll see FFG reprint any of the miniature based games (Man-O-War, Blood Bowl), but I don't think it's out of the question that they could reprint a game like Warhammer Quest that isn't a miniatures game, but rather a board game with miniatures. I'd love to see the marriage between the two where FFG reprinted a badass version of Warhammer Quest with counters/standees for the characters and with GW doing a Warhammer Quest miniatures line. I think that could work, as one of the primary reasons that they've stated for NOT reprinting Space Hulk was the cardboard bits being produced by a separate company.

Anyways, I'm not a complete GW apologist, I think making the Azhag model metal and $89 bucks is absurd, but then again I'm not going to buy one. However, for the relatively short time that I've been in the hobby (5 years--crap, have I been out of college that long?) compared to the 'golden-age' gamers, I think they've made more good decisions than bad.
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Like a lot of people who got into gaming in the mid 80s through the wonder that was White Dwarf and GW at the time, I felt let down by the company when it "went bad."

Black Industries' reprint of Talisman is what got me curious about boardgaming all over again. Ironically, when I set foot in a GW store for the first time in 20 years to ask about it, I was informed by staff in charming gamesworkshopese that unfortunately "we only stock The Three Games." (Yes, I'm pretty sure I heard him use capital letters).

I don't hate GW after all this time, but I do have a profound indifference to them.

One thing of interest I have noted now that i happen to work with teenage lads is that almost all of them have heard of Games Workshop and Warhammer, with a large proportion having either spent money or shop lifted on their premises. Without doubt, gaming today owes a debt to GW, as do I, tangentially.

(When Citadel first went plastic, their models really did suck though, but I have to admit that they seem to have got it right at some point in the last 20 years).
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When I'm trying to understand why the hate, I can just check the sum of money I put into that company, directly or through a license:

Hero Quest
Blood Bowl 2nd edition
Warhammer RPG
A Vampire Counts WFB army that went through 2 editions
A Dwarf WFB army
Warhammer: Mark of Chaos PC Game
Now a year of subscription to Warhammer Online
Space Hulk 3rd edition
Chaos of the Old World
And soon,
Warhammer Invasion and Chaos Marauders

If I calculate the sum of everything, I've put about 1000$ into that company. And I really don't have every boardgame that I would like (Talisman, DungeonQuest, Warhammer Quest, Space Crusade, etc), since they weren't easily available when I was a kid. When I check that, I could say, yeah, I'm stupid, they make me spend money since more than 15 years. But you know what? It's because they do great stuff. I love the Warhammer Universe. I love the quality of what they do. I love how they treat their license, and how others picking the license produce quality products thanks to it.

Some people might not get it. When I talk to people who prefer abstracts, euros or even wargames, they might not understand the appeal of a complex license like Warhammer. I still haven't rated a single game 10/10. But in my mind, the Warhammer (and 40k) universes are perfect 10: something I will always come back to and enjoy it. That's why I have been away and back all the time from Games Workshop, but whenever I am coming back to it in whatever iteration, I love it. In the end, it's still a business with shady practices. But what they've done, they've satisfied the many facets of the gamer in me. No company managed to envelop me that well. (Ok, FFG is coming close, but are too spread out on their licenses)

Now if they would only publish other boardgames!! That Space Hulk can't be a single experiment for them...
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aaxiom wrote:
panzer-attack wrote:
Look, I don’t expect everyone to like Games Workshop games – they’re not for everyone. I’ll be honest – I don’t like cauliflower because it looks like brains but I don’t stand in the fruit and veg section of a supermarket haranguing customers who choose to buy that product.

Sir, you just summed up a great deal with that most wonderful analogy. Why people behave like this here on the Geek amazes me.

Well put!

What does this have to do with reality?
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aaxiom wrote:
You took the blue pill, didn't you?

No, the green pill. GW sucks; but no one pickets the stores.
 
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aaxiom wrote:
milhouse46 wrote:
In the end, it's still a business with shady practices.


Eric, enjoyed your post immensely, but I must inquire about the above quote: What "shady practices" are you referring to?


Every company has its good and bad moves. They are there for the money, it's normal. Now that I checked it, I think that the expression "shady" is maybe too strong. I was more thinking about the things they do, such as price fixing, aggressive retail chain control or marketing techniques. But any global company that wants to keep its place on the market will do that. And as such, I'm not complaining. This isn't a mom and pops gaming company held by 2-3 guys in their office. It's a company with a very complex structure and an international visibility.

Like someone said earlier, they can be called the Microsoft of the world. Their stuff is expensive, yeah, and they might not look like angels compared to the small players of this world, but what they do is complex and still appreciated by many.
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