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Richard III: The Wars of the Roses» Forums » Rules

Subject: Heir Charges rss

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nolan Guthrie
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"6.5 Heir Charges" says the SENIOR HEIR has the option to fire at a named block.

In rule "3.21 Heirs" Defines the current senior heir as the king or
pretender.

So only the current King/pretender can charge?
Nolan
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Good question; I was wondering this too: does "senior heir" here mean the most senior of all heirs in play, or the senior heir in the battle at the time. It could be the latter given the wording of rule 6.5 (The senior heir in a battle at the instant of fire has...).
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Paul Kemp
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It will be as it says, Eg One Heir will be the No 3 Heir the other say a No 2 Heir. The Higher will charge.

No mention of what happens if it's a draw eg No 5 Hier for both as I understand would be what would be the case to begin with. Perhaps the Heir who is King would be favoured if there is a tie. Or maybe there is no charge if they are tied.
 
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Pulinski wrote:
It will be as it says, Eg One Heir will be the No 3 Heir the other say a No 2 Heir. The Higher will charge.

No mention of what happens if it's a draw eg No 5 Hier for both as I understand would be what would be the case to begin with. Perhaps the Heir who is King would be favoured if there is a tie. Or maybe there is no charge if they are tied.


The problem is the rule "as it says" can be interpreted in different ways, and if I understand you correctly, you've found a third way of interpreting it: Are you saying that only the senior heir of both sides in the current battle who can charge, i.e. only one side can make an heir charge? Thus if the Lancasters have the second heir, and the Yorks the third, then the Lancastaers only can choose to charge. I presume that's you're reading of the rule from your discussion of a tie. I had assumed it was the senior heir on just one side -- i.e. both sides look at who their senior heir is, and can use him to make the charge.However, you're right, that is not explicitly stated. Of course, the lack of discussion in the rules on a tie may indicate that you're understanding is incorrect. Alternatively, nguthrie's reading, that the senior heir is a specific term for the leader of the faction, is also possible.
 
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Niko Ruf
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Salo sila wrote:
(The senior heir in a battle at the instant of fire has...).


I think the 'at the instant of fire' bit is pretty clear. I.e. which block has the option to charge is subject to change if other heirs retreat or appear as reserves. So the rule does not just apply to the king or pretender.

Also, it would make no sense thematically if seniority was compared between players. The senior heir *of your side* is the commander in chief and may make the difficult (or foolhardy) decisions.
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Niko Ruf wrote:
Salo sila wrote:
(The senior heir in a battle at the instant of fire has...).


I think the 'at the instant of fire' bit is pretty clear. I.e. which block has the option to charge is subject to change if other heirs retreat or appear as reserves. So the rule does not just apply to the king or pretender.

Also, it would make no sense thematically if seniority was compared between players. The senior heir *of your side* is the commander in chief and may make the difficult (or foolhardy) decisions.


This is how I understand it, too.
 
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nolan Guthrie
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I got a chance to play last night and before we started we decided that the oldest (senior) heir in the battle could charge. We didn't limit it to just the king or pretender. Neither of us actually used it.

I didn't because I kept most of my Heirs out of battle unless I had a hefty advantage. I think after we get the hang of the game I would use it primarly as a way to finish off a wounded block.
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Matthew Webster
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Niko Ruf wrote:
Salo sila wrote:
(The senior heir in a battle at the instant of fire has...).


I think the 'at the instant of fire' bit is pretty clear. I.e. which block has the option to charge is subject to change if other heirs retreat or appear as reserves. So the rule does not just apply to the king or pretender.

Also, it would make no sense thematically if seniority was compared between players. The senior heir *of your side* is the commander in chief and may make the difficult (or foolhardy) decisions.


I agree. I think this rule deals with the situation when a battle contains 2 heirs from the same house e.g. Duke of York (Pretender) and Earl of Rutland hence the term friendly senior heir. In that case only York can Heir Charge. If Henry VI (King) is in the same battle he may also Heir Charge. I think this also means that if York and Rutland are fighting in separate battles they may both Heir Charge.

If interpreted this way the rule is similar to rule 2.3 Crowns i.e. all royal heirs can benefit from a crown but not if fighting in the same battle.
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Grant Dalgliesh
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Correct, each side has a senior heir.

This rule is for those situations where you have two or more heirs on the same side - only the one with the nigher seniority/lower number on block can charge.
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Ender Wiggins
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6.5 says "The friendly senior heir in a battle at the instant of fire has the option to Charge." What exactly is meant by "at the instant of fire"? Is this a reference to the moment when that particular heir has initiative and would otherwise make its regular roll to fire (with hits allocated to the most powerful opposing block)?

So basically this rule just allows specific targeting of an attack (with the drawback that if the target survives the charge, the target gets to roll one die immediately against the charging block).
 
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