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Subject: HATERS rss

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Dr ?
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It occurs to me that some folks dislike certain games and some folks are real "Haters." This is often applied to the supposed Euro vs. Ameritrash dichotomy.

Admittedly I dislike certain conventions of Euros (and I know they are not universal!). Chief among these is the ubiquitous Meeple. And Animeeples or whatever they are. But I don't think I am a "Hater." My rationale for this is that I have played Euros that appeal in spite of these conventions. And I have played a few games with a reportedly "euro" feel (e.g. Age of Empires III) which I think are completely badass even though my win/loss record is shameful.

Neither am I inclined to float a bunch of 1 ratings because I think Meeples look like a kid's art project gone to mass production or because I think games about sleepy European villages in the throes of cabbage harvesting are less than engaging in theme. To each his own. And over time, I find that sometimes yours might be mine too. A change of opinion in tastes sometimes shows that we are open. I did not like stout beer when I was 21. Later I did not like porters. Now I like all of them except Pale Ales. Give me a few years and I might like them too!

I believe this line of thought was spawned by all of the recent excitment over a recent game's rise in the ratings and assertions that some games' rating are artificially manipulated in the ratings due to a hartred or love of genre.

My opinion is that unbridled enthusiasm is present but is easier to understand than absolutely negative reactions to a game, particularly one that has not been played.

I was curious how folks might define the difference between someone who has a low opinion of a game vs. their role as a "Hater." I would be happy if any self avowed "Haters" chimed in as well....
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Swood
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I love lamp.
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Carlos Robledo
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I hate people who hate stuff

.....wait
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It's just a ride...
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Haters are the gaming equivalent of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

You REALLY never know whether you are going to like a game until you've tried it. It really is the only way.

For example, I thought I would enjoy playing Dungeon Twister. Gave it a go, and despised it passionately. Wouldn't play it again, but hey, others like it, so that's like, cool y'know?

For another example, I didn't think I'd like Agricola. Gave it a go, and loved it. Whod'a thunk it?

Euro-snoots, Ameritrashers and Grognards, like, chill out dudes...
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Bobby Doran
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I hate haters!
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Why in the world are youy hating on the haters? I have to wonder why you feel the need to attack others.
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That is not Depeche but rather
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Yeah! Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew...

What's that? Ohhhh...haters. Nevermind then, carry on.
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Justin Fitzgerald
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Well there's also this whole thing called "The Intertoobs" which turns normal people into complete raving asshats. Many people are bored and happiness isn't as easily shared of a trait as anger, so you see idiots arguing with each other every any minor detail. I suppose it makes up for their cold and shallow lives.
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Hunga Dunga
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You have your garden-variety hater, who hates a game he or she has just played, and then you have the truly exotic hater, who hates games he or she has never played.

Of course, you also have your regressive hater, who for some reason feels the need to rag on Candy Land even though they haven't played it in 30 years...
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Dr ?
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put your hands in the "Aya if you a true hata"
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Mike Jones
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Marlin Back
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People who hate a lot are MasterHaters. Generally, most people avoid others when they're masterhating. Like most of us, I prefer people keep masterhating to themselves. Most people here at BGG don't want to see it or hear about it. We all do it from time to time, but that doesn't mean you should share it with the world. I know there are websites devoted to it, but this isn't one of them.
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Gláucio Reis
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Warpiglet wrote:
Admittedly I dislike certain conventions of Euros (...). Chief among these is the ubiquitous Meeple.

I'm not very fond of "meeples", either. They are a very common component of Euros, obviously, but I wouldn't call them a "convention".

Quote:
And I have played a few games with a reportedly "euro" feel (e.g. Age of Empires III)

Age of Empires III is a Euro.

 
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Ben Delp
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marlinus64 wrote:
People who hate a lot are MasterHaters. Generally, most people avoid others when they're masterhating. Like most of us, I prefer people keep masterhating to themselves. Most people here at BGG don't want to see it or hear about it. We all do it from time to time, but that doesn't mean you should share it with the world. I know there are websites devoted to it, but this isn't one of them.


That was great. I'd tip you if I wasn't geekgold poor.
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Adam Alleman
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Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!
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Bill Gates
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delp1871 wrote:
marlinus64 wrote:
People who hate a lot are MasterHaters. Generally, most people avoid others when they're masterhating. Like most of us, I prefer people keep masterhating to themselves. Most people here at BGG don't want to see it or hear about it. We all do it from time to time, but that doesn't mean you should share it with the world. I know there are websites devoted to it, but this isn't one of them.


That was great. I'd tip you if I wasn't geekgold poor.


I took care of it for you.
 
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Tony C
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To me a hater is the opposite of a fanboy - haters hate regardless of their experience with the thing in question, and usually can't even acknowledge any benefits or good things about the hate-ee.

If someone doesn't understand something, but still hates it, I don't think I'd call them a hater necessarily. Often, however, their hating can get in the way of their understanding and potentially appreciating the game/thing in question. If they won't *let* themselves try to understand or appreciate the game, that's a hater.
 
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Phil Sauer
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Guantanamo wrote:
{Kelly's Heroes 'negative wave' reference here}


It's an interesting 1960s-1970s take on the 1940s... still, enjoyable. Underlying point perfectly presented, Mike. Nice job!

 
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Hunga Dunga
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I hate cauliflower.
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GSReis wrote:
I'm not very fond of "meeples", either. They are a very common component of Euros, obviously, but I wouldn't call them a "convention".


Hmm. "MeepleCon 2010" has a nice sound to it. Anyone want to organize a mini-convention inside BGG.con? laugh
 
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Kolby Reddish
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I'd say the difference comes from experience.

I thought I'd like Le Havre because I liked Agricola. I purchased it without playing. I really, really disliked the game. Not only that, the similarities it had with Agricola made me dislike aspects of that game as well.

Am I a hater of either game? No, people like to play them, and that's fine. I'll still play Agricola from time to time. Luckily the hype floating about Le Havre enabled me to sell my used copy for more than I paid for it.

The difference is that I've played both games, and just dislike them.

Haters have rarely tried the things that they passionately hate. They hate indiscriminately, and have you ever noticed that the same people who hate one thing, usually hate more?

Interesting coincidence.

I'd say it happens because of people's experience, and their level of tolerance.
 
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Jason
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I'd hate on haters that hate on those that hate things, but I've better things to do with my time.
 
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Lance McMillan
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Warpiglet wrote:
It occurs to me that some folks dislike certain games and some folks are real "Haters." This is often applied to the supposed Euro vs. Ameritrash dichotomy.


You really need to define what you interpret as a "hater." Just because someone is an outspoken critic, doesn't necessarily make them a "hater."

Warpiglet wrote:
Neither am I inclined to float a bunch of 1 ratings because I think Meeples look like a kid's art project gone to mass production or because I think games about sleepy European villages in the throes of cabbage harvesting are less than engaging in theme.


Okay, so criticism about a game's physical components (whether it's plastic toy soldiers, or wooden meeples meeples, or cardboard counters) isn't sufficient to justify a "1" rating. But what is? Obviously a complaint about cards having rounded rather than square-cut corners is trivial and shouldn't warrant an adverse rating, but what about criticisms concerning the actual game play itself? If you feel strongly enough that the game's basic rule and concepts are seriously flawed, wouldn't an adverse rating justified in that case?

Warpiglet wrote:
I believe this line of thought was spawned by all of the recent excitment over a recent game's rise in the ratings and assertions that some games' rating are artificially manipulated in the ratings due to a hatred or love of genre.


Don't beat around the bush. You're referring to GW's 3rd edition of Space Hulk. No need to be coy about it.

Some people really like the game and have given it a "10" rating -- great, more power to 'em, hope they enjoy themselves for many years with their new toys. Others, for whatever reason, don't like Space Hulk and have given it a "1" rating -- hopefully nobody will coerce them into playing a game they loathe again. Of course, that assumes that the people who've submitted those ratings have actually played (or observed) a game of Space Hulk. But whether that's true or not isn't particularly relevant: if someone likes or dislikes a game, for whatever reason, they're entitled to their opinion.

Warpiglet wrote:
My opinion is that unbridled enthusiasm is present but is easier to understand than absolutely negative reactions to a game, particularly one that has not been played.


I own and have played the new edition of Space Hulk several times, and will doubtless play it many more times since my son enjoys it. While I haven't rated it (I typically don't submit ratings), if I did my rating would be fairly low -- certainly not a "1," but probably not above a "5" (and likely lower than that). I find the game to be high on the "glitzy" scale, with little substance and a lot of repetition in play. But, again, it's not an awful game to play.

My chief objection to Space Hulk was (and remains) over what I feel was GW's manipulative marketing strategy for a product with a grossly inflated pricetag. Because of that, I'm apparently percieved as an outspoken critic about the game, a "hater" if you will. That's fine, I can live with that title. But what I don't understand is why that makes me any worse that what I call "lovers" of certain games or genres.

I'm talking about people who will give a game an automatic "10" rating based solely on which company produces it, or who the designer is, or the fact that the game's theme about trains, because it's cheap, or simply because it comes in a certain sized box. None of these criteria for a "10" rating are any more (or less) valid than assigning Space Hulk a "1" because you don't happen to like GW, or dislike games that feature combat situations and/or killing, or you object to the $100+ cost for a "limited edition," or because you think the miniatures are "childish."

Rating a game is a very personal, subjective , and (frankly) almost entirely meaningless enterprise. Why is everyone so flustered about whether Space Hulk makes it to the top of the popularity list or not? Read a couple reviews, if it sounds like you'll enjoy it, then go out and pick up a copy -- if not, then don't. Big deal, so what.

Regardless, can we please give the whole tired Space Hulk is great/awful thing a rest?

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Lancer4321 wrote:
Regardless, can we please give the whole tired Space Hulk is great/awful thing a rest?

Hater.
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Lance McMillan
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Hungadunga wrote:
Lancer4321 wrote:
Regardless, can we please give the whole tired Space Hulk is great/awful thing a rest?

Hater.


And damned proud of it!
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