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Subject: Why is Space Hulk a 'wargame'? rss

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Mike Wene
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It doesn't appear that Doom is classified as a wargame. So, how is the distinction made? Does anybody really know?
 
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Wouter Dhondt
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It isn't a wargame. Where is it advertised as such?
 
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Alexey Babaitsev
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Space Hulk is at #1* at last!!!! W00t!!







*among wargames at BGG.
 
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Simon Lundström
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Wow, this was scary. I took up the Wargame ranking and it showed ranks #2 and on. There was no #1.
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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Yeah, I noticed today... I guess it could be considered a wargame in some sense. Isn't Doom more about players controlling single characters? At least in SH each player controls a small "army" of sorts...

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Branko K.
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Mike Wene wrote:
It doesn't appear that Doom is classified as a wargame. So, how is the distinction made? Does anybody really know?


Because now that the Eurogamers are adequately pissed, it is time to piss off the wargamers.
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Andrew Hurp
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Funnily enough, I'm using it as a gateway wargame. Couple of games of Space Hulk, and then I'll crack out Conflict of Heroes
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Brian M
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Why wouldn't it be a wargame?

A wargame is a type of game based on a fictional or non-fictional battle, war or conflict. Yes

The games involve players taking 2 sides,usually, in which one side is trying to defeat the other by means of destruction or a set objective, such as a tile locations, victory point goal or objective. Check.

Most games include military units, such as a soldiers, armored vehicles or other fictional units, like dragons, orcs or space marines. Space Marines, yep.

Other components can include armored vehicles, cannons, specialized elite units or even flying military units. Its got Librarian/heavy weapon specialized elite units.

A good portion of wargames are re-enactments of actual historic battles and can involve miniature units or tokens representing military units. And its only one game, so it doesn't have to be 'a good portion'.

Why not a wargame? (The question might very well be "what missing from the BGG wargame criteria).
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Jack
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I don't see it classified as a wargame. It is categorized as a miniatures, fighting, science fiction game. But it would be #1 if it was a wargame, and the wargame #1 spot is missing. So who knows?
 
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Jon Grey
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baba44713 wrote:
Mike Wene wrote:
It doesn't appear that Doom is classified as a wargame. So, how is the distinction made? Does anybody really know?


Because now that the Eurogamers are adequately pissed, it is time to piss off the wargamers.


laugh
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Jack
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StormKnight wrote:
Why wouldn't it be a wargame?

A wargame is a type of game based on a fictional or non-fictional battle, war or conflict. Yes

The games involve players taking 2 sides,usually, in which one side is trying to defeat the other by means of destruction or a set objective, such as a tile locations, victory point goal or objective. Check.

Most games include military units, such as a soldiers, armored vehicles or other fictional units, like dragons, orcs or space marines. Space Marines, yep.

Other components can include armored vehicles, cannons, specialized elite units or even flying military units. Its got Librarian/heavy weapon specialized elite units.

A good portion of wargames are re-enactments of actual historic battles and can involve miniature units or tokens representing military units. And its only one game, so it doesn't have to be 'a good portion'.

Why not a wargame? (The question might very well be "what missing from the BGG wargame criteria).


I have always thought of "wargame" to mean a simulation of a historical or hypothetical battle or campaign in the past, present, or very near future. Hypothetical being wars such as NATO vs Warsaw Pact, Operation Sealion, etc. Near future meaning conflicts which would largely be fought with current or near future weapons systems (no laser tanks, or flying suits).

Of course that is just me. I know that others make good points (such as your definition) on how best to categorize wargames.
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Mike Wene
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jackolantern wrote:
I don't see it classified as a wargame. It is categorized as a miniatures, fighting, science fiction game. But it would be #1 if it was a wargame, and the wargame #1 spot is missing. So who knows?


On the Space Hulk entry page it has listed at the top:
"Boardgame Rank: 7"
"Wargame Rank: 1"

If you click on the "1" it brings up the wargame ranking list and has Space Hulk at the top.
 
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Mike Wene
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StormKnight wrote:
Why wouldn't it be a wargame?

A wargame is a type of game based on a fictional or non-fictional battle, war or conflict. Yes

The games involve players taking 2 sides,usually, in which one side is trying to defeat the other by means of destruction or a set objective, such as a tile locations, victory point goal or objective. Check.

Most games include military units, such as a soldiers, armored vehicles or other fictional units, like dragons, orcs or space marines. Space Marines, yep.

Other components can include armored vehicles, cannons, specialized elite units or even flying military units. Its got Librarian/heavy weapon specialized elite units.

A good portion of wargames are re-enactments of actual historic battles and can involve miniature units or tokens representing military units. And its only one game, so it doesn't have to be 'a good portion'.

Why not a wargame? (The question might very well be "what missing from the BGG wargame criteria).


Sorry, maybe I should have been more explicit with my question. Why is Space Hulk a wargame but Doom isn't?
 
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Chris Montgomery
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On BGG it is a wargame is the publisher designates it as such when the game is registered. End of story.

If you are asking whether it is a wargame in theory, that generally boils down to a matter of opinion.

I have a very broad definition of wargames. Why be exclusive in a subgenre of gaming that is already very tiny?

To me, a "wargame" is any game about armed conflict in any scale, any universe (real or imagined), and in any scope, even if only dealt with abstractly or tangentially. So, in my book, Space Hulk is a wargame. So is AT-43 and History of the World. So is Age of Empires. So is Doom.

After that broad definition, the issue is just about adding qualifiers:

"Historical wargame" - a game about armed conflict based on historical military engagements and/or closely-related hypothetical engagements in which a partial (or main) objective is to attempt to simulate one or more aspects of military conflict in a "realistic" way.

But that's just my take on it.

At the end of the day, it's generally a subjective issue.

I say generally. I don't think anyone would seriously argue that Powergrid is a wargame, and I doubt that anyone would seriously argue that Advanced Squad Leader isn't a wargame.

But when it comes to Space Hulk, you have as many opinions about it as people have a$$holes.

Chris
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Tom Hancock
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Aldie secretly wants it to be #1 on both lists. It probably will be once it gets enough votes.

Space Hulk is going to draw 40K / miniatures gamers over into board gaming, just like it will draw some board gamers over into 40K land. Ultimately, it is going to be good for both hobbies.
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Lee Moneta-Koehler
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cmontgo2 wrote:
On BGG it is a wargame is the publisher designates it as such when the game is registered. End of story.


Publishers generally don't add games to BGG, users do. Users select those parameters.
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Mike Wene
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hancock.tom wrote:
Aldie secretly wants it to be #1 on both lists. It probably will be once it gets enough votes.

Space Hulk is going to draw 40K / miniatures gamers over into board gaming, just like it will draw some board gamers over into 40K land. Ultimately, it is going to be good for both hobbies.


So Space Hulk is a gateway game!!!! (for 40k players)

That might stir the pot a little bit more. But, I like it!
 
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Jack
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Mike Wene wrote:
Sorry, maybe I should have been more explicit with my question. Why is Space Hulk a wargame but Doom isn't?


That is a good question. There are no real diiferences between them- alien races battling in the far-flung future.
 
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Gordon Adams
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Space Hulk and Doom ,along with many other "fantasy" games, are not wargames.

Real afficionados of wargames would cringe at the thought that SH and Doom being called wargames.

Are these two games based on real wars and battles ? Well, I hope not.

Mind you there is a war going on here right now: SH gamers vs Non-SH gamers ! laugh
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elfrododumbo wrote:
Real afficionados of wargames would cringe at the thought that SH and Doom being called wargames.

Sadly enough, I've had people tell me in all seriousness that wargaming is defined as painted miniatures set up across a table, and that historical value has no bearing on the matter. When I argue the point, they will sometimes concede that it might just be how wargaming is defined in Great Britain.

So it always amuses me to come here and read the other side of the coin...
 
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Jorge Arroyo
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Historical value has nothing to do with being a wargame, or are Starship Troopers by the old AH and Bug Hunter Sniper!: Sniper! Companion Game #3 not wargames? They both look like classic hex-counter wargames if you ask me

Anyway, the difference between tactical dungeon crawlers like Doom or Descent and SH is that in SH each side actually controls an "army" of sorts. Doom and Descent seem to be more about controlling one character per player, like in an RPG...
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Peter Hendee
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Quote:
Sorry, maybe I should have been more explicit with my question. Why is Space Hulk a wargame but Doom isn't?


The issue is subjective but I like the way these games are classified. I prefer the complexity (luck element?) of three or more players so I generally avoid "war games."

I think of war games as two player games. Space Hulk is. Doom is not.

Of course, many two player games are not war games.
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Mike Wene wrote:
On the Space Hulk entry page it has listed at the top:
"Boardgame Rank: 7"
"Wargame Rank: 1"

I wonder what it's party game rank might be ...
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Mike Wene
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Werbaer wrote:
Mike Wene wrote:
On the Space Hulk entry page it has listed at the top:
"Boardgame Rank: 7"
"Wargame Rank: 1"

I wonder what it's party game rank might be ...


Well, if you believe the conspiracy theories, it will soon be #1 on the Party Game ranking as well....
 
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