Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Steam Barons» Forums » General

Subject: Is this just like the Railways of England & Wales Advanced Share System? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ender Wiggins
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In the Railways of England & Wales Advanced Share System, Martin Wallace effectively added a stock market and shares to the Age of Steam/Railroad Tycoon system. It seems to me that Steam Barons is basically the same idea, but added to Steam?

If I'm correct, then it means that we now have two different flavours or product lines of the same game system family:
Flavour 1
Medium-weight: Railways of the World (= Railways of the World)
Heavy-weight: Age of Steam
With shares: Railways of England and Wales Advanced Share System
Flavour 2
Medium-weight: Steam Basic
Heavy-weight: Steam Standard
With shares: Steam Barons

Is this a fair assessment, and in Steam Barons are we pretty much seeing what we've already seen in Railways of England & Wales Advanced Share System?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bradley Keen
United States
Harrisburg
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
www.punkzter.blogspot.com
badge
It's a horse. On a chair.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would hesitate to place Age of Steam in the same branch as Railroad Tycoon. Instead, I would suggest the viewpoint that both Railroad Tycoon and Steam are both branches out of the Age of Steam tree. Of course, Age of Steam itself is a further development of the Early Railways system.

Because of the cards that are utilized in Railroad Tycoon, it seems to me that Steam is a closer relative to Age of Steam than Railroad Tycoon.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Larry Levy
United States
Manassas
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Best hobby, with the best people in the world. Gaming is the best!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BrenoK wrote:
I heard some people comment here that Steam Barons' system is quite different, and looks much better than the one in Railways of England.

Well, there certainly appear to be differences, based on Ender's review of England and Wales and the online rules for Steam Barons:

* There are no mergers in Steam Barons;
* The stock adjustments in SB is automatic, not player chosen, based on the relative ranking of the company incomes that turn;
* There is no income adjustment in SB, just like there's none of it in Steam.

There's probably other differences as well, but without the rules for E&W in front of me, I'm not able to list them all. The concept of the two games is very similar, but there are also some significant differences.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Krupiński
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
designer
badge
This space is available for rental
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
EndersGame wrote:
Is this a fair assessment, and in Steam Barons are we pretty much seeing what we've already seen in Railways of England & Wales Advanced Share System?


Nope - they're quite different systems. Basic idea is the same. A big difference (at least for me) is this, that share prices at the end of the turn are adjusted based on how much money railroad companies earn in comparison to each other. This turn price of one company can go up because it earned the most money, but next turn it can go down if it won't deliver cubes.

Another difference is possibility that company will go bankrupt. Of course there're no mergers. Maybe I'll post more differences after weekend.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Snooze Fest
United States
Hillsborough
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
We love our pups!! Misu, RIP 28 Nov 2010. Tikka, RIP 11 Aug 2011.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's a quick summary of the rules:
- players do not have a color; instead, there are 6 companies in the game, each with a number of shares (varies with map)
- random company turn order each round; 5 rounds in game
- Each round
... first, there's a share auction phase (game starts with 1/company available). For each company with shares available, auction to set price (min bid = current value), then in player order may buy as many shares as you want (if available).
... then, companies build up to 3 track; issues shares ($5 each) if need to raise more money
... next, move goods (twice). Big change -- may move only over your own links, but as far as you want. Track links on performance track
... now, payouts: depending on performance, companies may pay dividends per share, earn money for themselves, and pay bonus to CEO.
... then adjust company share value based on performance relative to each other (use chart). Performance Track markers are then reset to 0.
... players next may sell shares (simultaneously revealed); sold shares reduce company value
... finally, set new random turn order for next turn
- after 5 turns, the player with the most CASH wins!

So, some key differences: Steam Barons has...
- random company turn order
- only 5 rounds
- more limited track building
- simpler shares system (either held by company or player, or available; instead of issued vs. available vs. company vs player)
- no company restart --> they go bankrupt and are removed
- simpler dividend payout and share value adjustment schemes (payouts based on company performance, not CEO decision; value changes based on performance relative to other companies, not dividend payout relative to share value)
- no mergers

So, same basic idea -- share ownership in companies -- both coming from the 18xx style of game; but very different implementation. I think RoEW is the more complex of the two, especially if you can understand the merger rules!
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Young
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Old Ways Are Best!
badge
Check Six!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I know the idea here is to just compare the relative expansions, but it must also be kept in mind that there are some significant differences between the base game of Steam (most of which is retained with Steam Barons), and the advanced version of RoE&W (which is a separate game almost entirely from RRT/RoW).

It may be that a more complex game (Steam) is being given a somewhat simpler stock system, whereas the simpler RRT is transformed into a more complex game via its share system. Have to play both I guess to get a real feel for the difference. I'm a little disappointed with what I've seen of the Steam expansion...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
NSW
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BrenoK wrote:
I heard some people comment here that Steam Barons' system is quite different, and looks much better than the one in Railways of England.


Quite different? yes.

Better? Only insofar as it doesn't appear to be broken. It appears much simpler, certainly.

B>
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Young
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Old Ways Are Best!
badge
Check Six!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
thepackrat wrote:
BrenoK wrote:
I heard some people comment here that Steam Barons' system is quite different, and looks much better than the one in Railways of England.


Quite different? yes.

Better? Only insofar as it doesn't appear to be broken. It appears much simpler, certainly.

B>


Well, no one has had a chance to play it yet other than the devs and we've not heard from them yet. Apparently, the ones involved with RoE&W didn't think it was broken either; and, depending on the extent of the "clarification" we hope to get soon, it may not be as broken as we think (it's possible).

Which would then just leave this one "simpler?" Depending on what simpler means, I was rather counting on the more robust game getting a more robust expansion. We need to get at this puppy and play it! Any ideas on when it should show up this side of the pond?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Krupiński
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
designer
badge
This space is available for rental
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There is one big difference in gameplay between those two - In Railways of England and Wales just as in Chicago Express you can't sell shares (you can in Steam Barons). And just like in Chicago Express every share issued to the bank / bought by other players will reduce dividend for every share and it can be very painful
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Young
Canada
Victoria
BC
flag msg tools
Old Ways Are Best!
badge
Check Six!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
yosz wrote:
There is one big difference in gameplay between those two - In Railways of England and Wales just as in Chicago Express you can't sell shares (you can in Steam Barons). And just like in Chicago Express every share issued to the bank / bought by other players will reduce dividend for every share and it can be very painful


But, in RoE&W there is a way to "sell" shares and that is via merger. The merger mechanic as written is somewhat controversial and has possibly retarded the full study of the utility of the move. Mergers can extend the network of one company by buying out another to which it is connected. The target company is then available to be restarted (contrast to SB where companies that go bankrupt are out of the game). So, in theory, one could fold shares that aren't doing so well into a larger more successful company and conceivably re-acquire those same shares back later when they are performing more lucratively.

I admit that this only begins to observe on the merger mechanic and is based on the limited discussion so far available and the sparse description in the rules. However, the point is that initial investments in RoE&W are not as irrevocable as they are in either Chicago Express or Imperial (another game which this is often compared to).

The absence of the dividend "dilution" phenomena and mergers in Steam Barons may be why some have concluded this to be a "simpler" system. Or, it could be that a fuller explanation of all the details of the share system has been provided here making it "simpler" to understand. Or both.

To me, the biggest difference (aside from the details) between these expansions is the clarity with which they have been presented...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Krupiński
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
designer
badge
This space is available for rental
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bubslug wrote:
But, in RoE&W there is a way to "sell" shares and that is via merger. The merger mechanic as written is somewhat controversial and has possibly retarded the full study of the utility of the move.


You can see what I think of mergers here: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/3980580#3980580 - mergers with rules clarification by FRED are unprofitable.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.