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Subject: Question for people in countries with universal health care rss

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Andy Van Zandt
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Since most major industrialized nations have public health care in some form or another, how do y'all feel about what you've got currently?

I'm NOT looking for conjecture about the US proposal, I'm reading that on my own (it's not as long as people make it out to be- yes, 1000 pages, but double-spaced, large type, and 2 and a half inch margins... http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=11...:h3200ih.pdf).


(if there's already a thread for this, please point me that way)
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Paolo Robino
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Public health service in Italy is administered on a regional basis, therefore there are big differences in the level of service between regions, despite the fact that minimum levels are centrally set and should be guaranteed. I live in one of the so-called 'virtuous' regions, so, while things could certainly be better, I don't have real complaints. Last year my mom was diagnosed with lung cancer. She was treated with a new kind of radiosurgery, with a high-precision tool called Cyberknife. She recovered quite fast, and she is now relatively fine. All the procedure (preliminary scans and surgery, actual treatment sessions, follow-up scans) didn't cost anything to us (beyond our normal annual taxes, that is).

On the Cyberknife website there is a page with reimbursement information for US citizens. I don't really know what to think about it. The fact that reimbursement could be denied is quite scary to me.
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Jasper
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Pretty damn awesome. I would not be able to live in the states for this very reason (assuming they would have me).
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For the quality of health care in Belgium, the only word is: perfect. However, I feel we should take steps to decrease the part of drugs in the whole bill. The drug lobby is too powerful and greedy here.
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There are always things that can be done better, but I'm really satisfied with the healthcare provided here. And, since it was completely decentralised years ago, the only problems have been mostly solved. Today, probably the biggest complaint is that there is a moderate waiting time for non-critical tests which require specialised instrumentation, and sometimes for non-critical surgery, but not much.
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lotus dweller
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It is not as efficient or effective as it could be (no 1st world medical system is to my knowledge - all of them have the medical profession pissing in the pockets of government to keep the rivers of gold running into their pockets flowing, like all other major industry groups do) and perhaps people take a less responsible approach to looking after their own health, but it works OK.
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Cal Macewan
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The NHS in the UK is very popular. Whilst people may be unhappy with some aspects of its' organisation, such as top heavy management (with loads of consultants etc) compared to actual medical staff, as a concept it's well loved.

As far as politics go, the NHS is pretty much bomb-proof - any politician or party who advocated the abolition of the NHS would be doomed. The more right wing elements may suggest allowing tax breaks for those who want to do go totally private, or 'partnerships' between the NHS and private firms, but that is about as far as any would dare go. There has been a fair degree of interest in the debate in the US at the moment, and only one politician, a Tory MEP (Member of the European Parliment, generally filled with oddballs and second rate has beens) has criticised the NHS and was immeadiately turned on by his own party - the line being taken that he is a bit 'eccentric' i.e. he's a looney.See http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/aug/14/health-nhs

From personal experience the NHS is pretty good. My 81 year old mother has in the last two years had two knee replacements and an eye lens replacement, my father-in-law was treated for leukemia and made a full recovery, and both my children were delivered in an NHS hospital where the care was excellent, and there was extensive after care available in the community afterwards.

The general reaction to some of the talk in the US about 'death panels' and so on is usually a big WTF? as it bears no resemblance to universal health care as we know it.
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Jorge Montero
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HeinzGuderian wrote:
There are always things that can be done better, but I'm really satisfied with the healthcare provided here. And, since it was completely decentralised years ago, the only problems have been mostly solved. Today, probably the biggest complaint is that there is a moderate waiting time for non-critical tests which require specialised instrumentation, and sometimes for non-critical surgery, but not much.


Nah, the problem is very significant inequality, because the way the money is distributed among regions doesn't pay into consideration population age. Thus, regions where people emigrate to have very good systems, while those that are losing population have a lot of trouble keeping up.

Talk to a doctor in Asturias and ask about their budget troubles.
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hibikir wrote:
HeinzGuderian wrote:
There are always things that can be done better, but I'm really satisfied with the healthcare provided here. And, since it was completely decentralised years ago, the only problems have been mostly solved. Today, probably the biggest complaint is that there is a moderate waiting time for non-critical tests which require specialised instrumentation, and sometimes for non-critical surgery, but not much.


Nah, the problem is very significant inequality, because the way the money is distributed among regions doesn't pay into consideration population age. Thus, regions where people emigrate to have very good systems, while those that are losing population have a lot of trouble keeping up.

Talk to a doctor in Asturias and ask about their budget troubles.


That's true, but that problem permeates the Spanish administration since the autonomous communities were created, and which is hardly inherent to the healthcare system. As you know, I live in another of the regions with older population and also sparsely populated (a region larger than Belgium with a bit over one million inhabitants), what makes basic healthcare in rural areas awfully expensive. However, the efficiency of the system has actually improved since the system was fully taken over by the Aragonese government.
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T. Nomad
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Canada: very good. Been to emergency 4 or 5 times for non-critical but necessary care (bone breaks, etc), never had to wait more than a few hours. Can see my GP for a mini-consultation (10 minutes) with 2 days' notice. Drugs are too expensive, as is dental. No consistent preventative care messaging.

Korea: excellent. Free annual check-ups fr which they send me a note in the mail. Drugs so cheap that if I was a pill-popper, I'd be in heaven. In Korea, pharmacists make the drug decisions; not doctors. So in an after-hours emergency, if I needed (for example) an anti-coagulant, I could walk into any 24-hour pharmacy, spend 10 minutes consulting with the pharmacist, and walk out with my heparin. Every alternative medicine you can imagine (Chinese, chiro, ayurvedic, homeopathy, soothsayers) is cheaply available, but with that there is also a lot of superstition and misinformation (kimchi cures SARS, fan death) floating about.
in the other thread, tommynomad wrote:
2 weeks in traction in hospital, with daily drug cocktails, and diagnosics (CTs, MRI, etc.) cost me a grand total of $600, 400 of which ws refunded by my employer's additional insurance. Follow-up rehab & therapy for sports injuries costs me $70 for a 2-hour, total-care visit to a sports clinic used by olympic-calibre athletes.


New Zealand: very good. It would probably be excellent if I were 100% in the system, but as a non-resident I'm not. Visits to a GP are free. Specialists and lab fees I have to pay for up front, and get back (if I do the paperwork) 2-3 weeks later. Excellent messages on preventative medicine, nutrition, etc.

The Netherlands: excellent. Even when not a resident, I am entitled to full, free care as a citizen. Brilliant.
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Great. Both my wife and I are B"H generally healthy and yet if Ch"V anything does happen we don't need to worry about it. THAT'S the key point; it's no big deal.
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Chase Hartshorne
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Our second son was born on Thursday 24/09/2009 at 1.05am. The short story is that we had him at home as a home water birth.



The slightly longer story is that we had two midwives present and everything was ok up to the last few minutes when they realised something had gone wrong and they asked a friend to dial 911. My wife and I just prayed like we have never prayed before.

While this was happening the midwives started to resuscitate him on our dining room floor. A few minutes later two ambulances attended with a total of four paramedics.

Once everyone, including my wife was stabilised the one ambulance left. One midwife went to the hospital and the other went with my wife and son to the hospital in the ambulance.

We arrived at the hospital at 2:25am where we were attended to by another two midwives, a senior midwife, a nurse and a paediatrician. We were even served tea and toast. We left at 6:30am

We went back the next day and he was checked again by a paediatrician and a hearing test was also performed.

What did we pay? Our taxes and some money to pay for parking!!

Th one midwife even came to see us in the hospital on her day off.

Thank God for the NHS and how they looked after my family with caring and professionalism!


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Jage
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I live in America, and I have loved my healthcare so far. I guess the question is who pays more, me for my healthcare premiums or the taxes of those who live in country with government health care.
 
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Andy Van Zandt
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that would only be the question if you're doing a cost/benefit comparison of which country you want to live in (and would have to include lots of other things, avg cost of living, crime rate, etc). It would also only apply to you, as everyone has a different earning potential, some job skillsets are more valuable in some countries, some people wish to live in a distinctly different lifestyle than others, etc...

and that WOULD be a totally be a valid thing to do (and let me know if you come to a conclusion, would be interesting to know) if you're looking to move, but would not be the point of this particular thread, as i'm not actually shopping around with intent to relocate, i'm just trying to figure out if people who do have it dislike it, or perhaps wish it was more like the current US system.

meaning, i already know what my personal financial situation is, in regards to the proposal vs. current system here in the USA. knowing a relative value to other countries only tells me if i want to move to germany or brazil or something. a functionality critique is of more value to me.
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flying_chase wrote:
Our second son was born on Thursday 24/09/2009 at 1.05am. The short story is that we had him at home as a home water birth.



The slightly longer story is that we had two midwives present and everything was ok up to the last few minutes when they realised something had gone wrong and they asked a friend to dial 911. My wife and I just prayed like we have never prayed before.

While this was happening the midwives started to resuscitate him on our dining room floor. A few minutes later two ambulances attended with a total of four paramedics.

Once everyone, including my wife was stabilised the one ambulance left. One midwife went to the hospital and the other went with my wife and son to the hospital in the ambulance.

We arrived at the hospital at 2:25am where we were attended to by another two midwives, a senior midwife, a nurse and a paediatrician. We were even served tea and toast. We left at 6:30am

We went back the next day and he was checked again by a paediatrician and a hearing test was also performed.

What did we pay? Our taxes and some money to pay for parking!!

Th one midwife even came to see us in the hospital on her day off.

Thank God for the NHS and how they looked after my family with caring and professionalism!


And thats what people would like to inflict on the US?

shake


 
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DCAnderson wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
flying_chase wrote:
Our second son was born on Thursday 24/09/2009 at 1.05am. The short story is that we had him at home as a home water birth.



The slightly longer story is that we had two midwives present and everything was ok up to the last few minutes when they realised something had gone wrong and they asked a friend to dial 911. My wife and I just prayed like we have never prayed before.

While this was happening the midwives started to resuscitate him on our dining room floor. A few minutes later two ambulances attended with a total of four paramedics.

Once everyone, including my wife was stabilised the one ambulance left. One midwife went to the hospital and the other went with my wife and son to the hospital in the ambulance.

We arrived at the hospital at 2:25am where we were attended to by another two midwives, a senior midwife, a nurse and a paediatrician. We were even served tea and toast. We left at 6:30am

We went back the next day and he was checked again by a paediatrician and a hearing test was also performed.

What did we pay? Our taxes and some money to pay for parking!!

Th one midwife even came to see us in the hospital on her day off.

Thank God for the NHS and how they looked after my family with caring and professionalism!


And thats what people would like to inflict on the US?

shake




The problem was the decision to use a midwife at home.

Once they got to the hospital it sounds like things went swimingly.


The problem for me is the tax money is funding this.
 
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Dispaminite wrote:
DCAnderson wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
flying_chase wrote:
Our second son was born on Thursday 24/09/2009 at 1.05am. The short story is that we had him at home as a home water birth.



The slightly longer story is that we had two midwives present and everything was ok up to the last few minutes when they realised something had gone wrong and they asked a friend to dial 911. My wife and I just prayed like we have never prayed before.

While this was happening the midwives started to resuscitate him on our dining room floor. A few minutes later two ambulances attended with a total of four paramedics.

Once everyone, including my wife was stabilised the one ambulance left. One midwife went to the hospital and the other went with my wife and son to the hospital in the ambulance.

We arrived at the hospital at 2:25am where we were attended to by another two midwives, a senior midwife, a nurse and a paediatrician. We were even served tea and toast. We left at 6:30am

We went back the next day and he was checked again by a paediatrician and a hearing test was also performed.

What did we pay? Our taxes and some money to pay for parking!!

Th one midwife even came to see us in the hospital on her day off.

Thank God for the NHS and how they looked after my family with caring and professionalism!


And thats what people would like to inflict on the US?

shake




The problem was the decision to use a midwife at home.

Once they got to the hospital it sounds like things went swimingly.


The problem for me is the tax money is funding this.


oh, you live in... it looks like the poster who had the kid was in england? so you live in england? and you're concerned that your taxes were spent poorly paying for what occurred?

if you do live in england (which i'm doubting), then please elaborate.
if not, if you don't live in england, then stop polluting the thread.
 
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truekid wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
DCAnderson wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
flying_chase wrote:
Our second son was born on Thursday 24/09/2009 at 1.05am. The short story is that we had him at home as a home water birth.



The slightly longer story is that we had two midwives present and everything was ok up to the last few minutes when they realised something had gone wrong and they asked a friend to dial 911. My wife and I just prayed like we have never prayed before.

While this was happening the midwives started to resuscitate him on our dining room floor. A few minutes later two ambulances attended with a total of four paramedics.

Once everyone, including my wife was stabilised the one ambulance left. One midwife went to the hospital and the other went with my wife and son to the hospital in the ambulance.

We arrived at the hospital at 2:25am where we were attended to by another two midwives, a senior midwife, a nurse and a paediatrician. We were even served tea and toast. We left at 6:30am

We went back the next day and he was checked again by a paediatrician and a hearing test was also performed.

What did we pay? Our taxes and some money to pay for parking!!

Th one midwife even came to see us in the hospital on her day off.

Thank God for the NHS and how they looked after my family with caring and professionalism!


And thats what people would like to inflict on the US?

shake




The problem was the decision to use a midwife at home.

Once they got to the hospital it sounds like things went swimingly.


The problem for me is the tax money is funding this.


oh, you live in... it looks like the poster who had the kid was in england? so you live in england? and you're concerned that your taxes were spent poorly paying for what occurred?

if you do live in england (which i'm doubting), then please elaborate.
if not, if you don't live in england, then stop polluting the thread.


I live in the US. The US has a Public Option. It's called Medicare and Medicaid. So yuk
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DCAnderson wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:

The problem for me is the tax money is funding this.


The delivery at home, or the whole thing?

I admit that taxes shouldn't pay for risky things like having your baby away from a hospital.


The use of apparently poorly trained individuals. I would have the a same problem with using Tax Money to fund chiropractic Care, Accupuncture, a Massage, or any other general unproven quackery.
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Andy Van Zandt
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please open another thread, and there we can discuss your views of the american system and/or the proposed bill. however, in this thread, i was asking for the views of people in countries with a universal health care system (you'll notice the title says it explicitly), which medicare/medicaid is not. thus you're being intentionally provocative.

i promise i'll read what you say in another thread, or feel free to geekmail me, but get out of this thread if you're not going to actually contribute to the topic.

*edited at moderator request.*
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DCAnderson wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
DCAnderson wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:

The problem for me is the tax money is funding this.


The delivery at home, or the whole thing?

I admit that taxes shouldn't pay for risky things like having your baby away from a hospital.


The use of apparently poorly trained individuals. I would have the a same problem with using Tax Money to fund chiropractic Care, Accupuncture, a Massage, or any other general unproven quackery.


I actually agree 100% about the quackery.

Though the midwives sounded like they knew what they were doing and were well trained. Though I still think it was a bad idea to have a baby away from a hospital.


Without knowing more about what they did, it's hard to say. Resuscitation could be CPR (which is what I'm leaning toward), and I can perform CPR.
 
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up until the point where he was pretending to "defend" his trolling by ignoring the post title and managing to bring up medicare and medicaid in the same line, i might have agreed with you. but he obviously entered in with an agenda, and when it was pointed out, he took it even further. he's obviously trying to pick a fight with someone based on his agenda. that's trying to derail the thread, yes, but it's also being intentionally provocative. i just want him to do it elsewhere.

*edited at moderator request*
 
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truekid wrote:
up until the point where he was pretending to "defend" his trolling by ignoring the post title and managing to bring up medicare and medicaid in the same sentence, i might have agreed with you. but he obviously entered in with an agenda, and when it was pointed out, he took it even further. he's obviously trying to pick a fight with someone based on his agenda. that's trolling. i just want him to do it elsewhere.


I'd be interested in hearing what my agenda is.
 
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picking a fight, would be my first guess. as evidenced by your question, which just shows your desire to continue a discussion revolving around -your- thoughts, rather than providing something relevant to the thread's purpose.

*edited at moderator request*
 
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chiddler wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:
DCAnderson wrote:
Dispaminite wrote:

The problem for me is the tax money is funding this.


The delivery at home, or the whole thing?

I admit that taxes shouldn't pay for risky things like having your baby away from a hospital.


The use of apparently poorly trained individuals. I would have the a same problem with using Tax Money to fund chiropractic Care, Accupuncture, a Massage, or any other general unproven quackery.


Massage isn't 'unproven quackery', I had a long term neck problem fixed with massage that was prescribed for me by a family GP - its simple physics, no quackery or magic involved.

Its a standard physical therapy


P.T. is completely different that the massage I'm talking about. It would be the difference between therapy for a bored health wife, and therapy for someone with true traumatic issues.
 
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