Recommend
3 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Star Trader's Luck» Forums » General

Subject: Possible Expansion: Pirates and Bounty Hunters rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm thinking about a small expansion for this game. It would consist of 3 new dice with a pirate on one side and a generic merchant ships on 2 other sides (the other 3 sides blank).

The idea is to give players other possible activities (engage in piracy or fight pirates) with their possible consequences. It also adds a bit more direct interaction between players.

The rules are still in "alpha" state, but this is the basic idea so far:

Update: The rules as described here are obsolete. Download the latest version from: http://george.makasoft.net/StarTradersLuck-Expansion-Rules.p...

Players can buy shields at big planets and missiles at small planets. Cost is 2 per unit. Each shield protects the player against 1 pirate and is then spent. Each missile lets the player destroy one pirate or merchant and is then spent.

When you roll the planet dice, you also roll these 3 dice plus the police die.

All the rolled dice are treated equally and can be re-rolled, but at least one die must be "locked" before each new re-roll. If you're on a small planet, pirates must be locked and if you're on a big planet, merchant ships must be locked.

After the roll is finished, first check for pirate attacks:

- If the police is present, no pirate attacks are possible
- Else, each pirate will attack the player if he has cargo.
- If the player doesn't have cargo, the pirate will destroy a merchant if available.

A player may spend one shield to nullify the attack of one pirate (it's then spent). Else, the player will lose all his cargo.

COMBAT:

Then the player may attack a merchant (becoming a pirate) or pirate. Spend one missile to destroy it. Note that if the police is present no one may commit acts of piracy (but they will look the other way when a pirate is attacked).

When attacking a merchant, you gain one good chosen from those available on the planet. If you're carrying cargo, it must be of the same type as your current cargo. If you're empty, then choose any one from those available and note it down. After choosing the good, re-roll that die. You also gain 1 piracy status point (note it down or use some token).

When attacking a pirate, you gain 5 credits plus the number of pirates killed so far (not counting the last). So the first pirate gains you 5c, the second 6c, etc... You also lose 1 piracy status point i you have any.

At this point other players can come and attack the current player. They must spend the time to reach the planet plus one (so 4 days for a big planet). Also, their total time after that must be lower or equal than the total time of the current player, else the attack is not possible.

Combat between players is solved in a similar way but multiple missiles and/or shields may be used: The attacker takes in his hand a secret number of missiles and shields from the ones he owns. The defender does the same. Both players reveal their tokens at the same time. Each shield nullifies one missile. Any missiles left do the damage to the opponent. Note that combat is simultaneous and both opponents may be damaged.

Player Damage: If a player is damaged in player vs. player combat, the result depends on whether he's a pirate or not.

If the player is a pirate, then the player is considered to be arrested. He loses 2 days per piracy status point owned. He also loses all current cargo. The attacking player gets the bounty of 5$ per piracy status point. After that, the detained player loses 1 piracy status token

If the player is not a pirate, then he loses all cargo (the attacking player can take it if he wants). The attacking player also gains one piracy status token.

TRADING

Then surviving merchants (from the dice) trade: Re-roll one die (of your choice) per merchant. This is not optional.

After that, the player buys/sells as normal. Note that the buying action can be used to buy both cargo and/or shields/missiles. So you only spend 1 day to buy one or both.

POLICE

When trading illegal goods while owning piracy status tokens, you risk not only losing your cargo (as in the basic game) but also being detained. If the police turn up when you roll the die when selling illegally, you'll lose 2 days per piracy status token owned plus your cargo. After that, the detained player loses 1 piracy status token

Also, in the planet roll, if the police are active in the planet, pirates may not land and trade.

FEEDBACK

That's basically it... I'm probably forgetting stuff, but I'll be happy to clear things up and will listen to feedback and suggestions. I've tried the solo aspects and so far like the changes. They introduce more stuff you can do, and new strategies, but I think the biggest changes will be in multiplayer games, and that's where I want to do some playtesting.

Of course, if anyone wants to try this out I'll be very greatful You can use regular dice or paint 3 sides on blank dice... You can dowload the new dice here: http://george.makasoft.net/StarTradersLuck-ExpansionDice.pdf Aside from that some kind of tokens can be used (especially for missiles and shields). When I played, I marked the piracy "points" on the same sheet as the time/money and it worked fine...

I'll be posting updates here and if I'm happy with this, will add this as an actual expansion entry...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sounds like an interesting addition.
Will add to the play time but also adds more options.

This could possible be expanded to allow a "Police" or "Bounty Hunter" style player who rolls to catch contraband merchants and pirates. Getting score from successfull blockades/captures.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Hayes
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was with you until the piracy ratings. Do you think that's adding too many new elements to the game?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Sounds like an interesting addition.
Will add to the play time but also adds more options.

This could possible be expanded to allow a "Police" or "Bounty Hunter" style player who rolls to catch contraband merchants and pirates. Getting score from successfull blockades/captures.


Well... the bounty hunter style of play is included right there, but they can just hunt the pirates, not contraband merchants...


Quote:
I was with you until the piracy ratings. Do you think that's adding too many new elements to the game?


Well... I'm not sure... that's the basic idea and I want to try it out... In my few solo games it wasn't much of a problem because I just marked a cross each time I killed a merchant, and another symbol each time I killed a pirate (on the same line as the planet). That way I could see at a glance what my "piracy rating" was and what my "bounty hunter rating" was.

My intention was to reward players that hunt notorious player-pirates and also increase the punishment depending on how big a pirate you are... That's why a scale is needed... I know it could be simplified to a yes/no status, with a fixed punishment and a fixed reward... but I'm not sure... Will try those out too...

BTW, players will be spending more in-game time with these rules, so I'd advise to increase the time limit or else it might run out too quickly
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've uploaded a file with the new dice:

http://george.makasoft.net/StarTradersLuck-ExpansionDice.pdf
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And I've uploaded a file with the rules. Note that there are some changes fro what I posted above:

- Combat between players is not simultaneous. While both players reveal their committed tokens at the same time, the resolution is: first the attacker attacks and if unsuccessful, then the defender may attack back.

- Attacking a trader no longer gives the attacker 1 good. Instead it gives all the available goods of one type from the planet. The type must be the same as the one from the cargo carried, or if empty, any type. If this is too powerful, then if empty, the type with the least number of goods present. Also, when independent traders trade, they re-roll all the dice of one type, chosen by the current player.

I think that's it, although there may be some more small changes.

The file is http://george.makasoft.net/StarTradersLuck-Expansion-Rules.p...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nick Hayes
United States
Los Angeles
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You know, I retract my earlier statement. This new rule definitely adds a lot more depth and player interaction to the game. It also adds a sense of alignment, where good acts are rewarded and bad acts punished. I like it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Looks very good so far.
I might suggest limiting the total shields and missiles on a ship to its current cargo rating. IE: load up to 3 shields and 3 missiles on a basic starting ship.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Omega2064 wrote:
Looks very good so far.
I might suggest limiting the total shields and missiles on a ship to its current cargo rating. IE: load up to 3 shields and 3 missiles on a basic starting ship.


I agree, a limit might be good, but the variant cargo rating was a variant rule in the main rules... I'd have to assume in the expansion people will be playing with the fixed 5 cargo limit...

I guess I'll be able to decide on a sensible limit after playing this a few times...

BTW, here is an updated player sheet: http://george.makasoft.net/StarTradersLuck-ExpansionSheets.p...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Black Canyon wrote:
You know, I retract my earlier statement. This new rule definitely adds a lot more depth and player interaction to the game. It also adds a sense of alignment, where good acts are rewarded and bad acts punished. I like it.


Thanks, that's the idea a bit, and I think the best strategy will be maintaining some balance as piracy can be very rewarding at some specific times. Still, who knows, maybe a total piracy strategy can work well... Although it becomes riskier each time... and also more lucrative for the player that goes after you



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Andrew Tullsen pointed out one problem when you add cargo to a non-empty ship. How do you calculate the illegal selling price for the total? I decided to use the price for each part separately as it seems to me the option that makes more sense and can't be abused. You're also tracking each buy separately so it's not hard to calculate the total and you just have to change the way you note a buy that is being added (like put a + simbol in front on the line in the player sheet).

But thinking about this I realized that the expansion rules don't say anything about what price number to use when calculating the illegal selling price of goods you've stolen.

The most logical solution (to me ) is: For goods stolen from a player: the price the original owner payed. For goods stolen from an independent merchant: The price you'd have had to pay if you had bought them from the planet yourself (calculate this before re-rolling those dice).

I'll add that to the rules... (Edit: Rules updated)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
True this.
Setting the limit to 5 for the base game seems reasonable.
Then could add the rules for ship armamant capacity upgrades as an optional plug-in to the original option of cargo capacity upgrades.

maka wrote:
Omega2064 wrote:
Looks very good so far.
I might suggest limiting the total shields and missiles on a ship to its current cargo rating. IE: load up to 3 shields and 3 missiles on a basic starting ship.


I agree, a limit might be good, but the variant cargo rating was a variant rule in the main rules... I'd have to assume in the expansion people will be playing with the fixed 5 cargo limit...

I guess I'll be able to decide on a sensible limit after playing this a few times...

BTW, here is an updated player sheet: http://george.makasoft.net/StarTradersLuck-ExpansionSheets.p...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, I've played a 2 player game and realized about the first major problem: It's practically impossible to attack another player...

The thing is, each time you try to save time so you can reach another player without your total time spent being bigger than his, the turn goes back to you (in a 2 player game). So you have to spend time before getting the chance to actually go there and attack him.

The obvious solution is to instead of attacking other players during their turns, to attack them on your own turn. Just like when you decide to go to the last player's planet to get the same good dice as him, you can go there to attack him instead.

Problem is, because the planet size and police presence is important to see if the attack can be done and how much time it takes, and also because once there, the other player may want to trade, it's important that the actual dice roll for the attacked player is known.

This leaves two alternatives: You can only attack the player that played before you, or you can attack any player but either each player has a copy of the dice (expensive) or each player must note their whole roll each turn.

I'm leaning towards the first choice because it's simpler and needs less dice or note taking. If it works fine I'll leave it that way Problem is, with 2 players there's really no difference between the two and I rarely have the chance to playtest with 3 or more. So I'd really appreciate if someone would give this a try.

The second problem I noticed is that piracy might be a bit too powerful. In my game I attacked a trader that gave me 3 goods for free for a total profit of more than 60c. I think I'll go back to each independent trader giving you only 1 good. The change would also apply to independent traders re-rolling planet dice. So in that case they'd only re-roll 1 die. I think that makes more sense and makes the game less random...

Other than that, I'm really looking to confirm if the pirate's 2 day penalty per piracy point is a good number, and also the bounty hunter gainings of 5c per piracy point of the target. I think they work fine, but still have to play it more...

Ah! and there's a small change I thought of before we played tonight: If a player attacks another player and manages to get there before the defending player (total time spend for the attacker is less than for the defender), then they get to attack first, just like it's described in the rules, but if both times are the same (they reached him at the same time) then the attack is simultaneous, so that if both attacks are succesful, both players get the benefits/penalties. Also, at the end of the turn for the attacker (remember the attacker now attacks on his own turn) he must have a total time spent of at least the same as the player attacked, so if he arrived 1 day earlier and then doesn't buy/sell anything, he still gets 1 more day added because he can't leave before the attack takes place!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well for the potential Pirate or Bounty Hunter, you could just tie it into the whole "Follow another player to planet" rule. I rather assumed this was the case as otherwise there was no way to reasonably perform attacks from seperate systems.

IE: Player A heads to Planet X, a medium size world, and does their work. Player B, wanting to be a pirate, follows them to Planet X and pays the extra days time to do so and then plays out the battle. Conceivably a 3rd player could follow both of them to Planet X and play Merchant, Pirate, or Bounty Hunter.

This also plays into the whole aspect of a pirate or hunter in that they must stalk their target. I cant see it worlking any other way as otherwise you have players sniping at eachother from diffrent star systems!

Have not as yet had a chance to check out the full ramifications of sending pirates to jail. But looks a reasaonable penalty for getting shot down/caught vs the potential large hauls pirating can grant.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorge Arroyo
Spain
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Omega2064 wrote:
IE: Player A heads to Planet X, a medium size world, and does their work. Player B, wanting to be a pirate, follows them to Planet X and pays the extra days time to do so and then plays out the battle. Conceivably a 3rd player could follow both of them to Planet X and play Merchant, Pirate, or Bounty Hunter.

This also plays into the whole aspect of a pirate or hunter in that they must stalk their target. I cant see it worlking any other way as otherwise you have players sniping at eachother from diffrent star systems!


Exactly. But this system takes away the choice of target, as you can only attack the player that played just before you. Maybe this isn't a problem, but I'm not sure yet...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John "Omega" Williams
United States
Kentwood
Michigan
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I do not foresee it as overly a problem since the positions shift so often during play. And a player can allways try and conserve time to minimize or increase opportunities. Or consistently hit big planets to drain off a stalking pirates time.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.