Ryan Witt
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I have played Kingsburg 5 time with 2, 3, and 5 players and felt the game was missing something. Some of the players in my group enjoyed it more than others but nobody disliked it. For the most part we all felt it was just ok and is usually passed up for another game. I really want to like KB and am hoping TFaR will add what I'm looking for.

What I liked about the game was the dice rolling, blocking other players, and the invasions. I also love the artwork and the theme of the game.

What I disliked about the game is all 5 of my games felt to similar mostly because people keep using the same build pattern. Invasions are frustrating when I spend the time to build up my defense and someone who does not gets a lucky roll. I like the blocking aspect but felt the player interaction was a little lower than I would have liked.

I have read all of the reviews on the expansion and it seems to fix the major problems I have with the game. It also adds different governors to the game which I love because it adds more diversity and theme to the game.

Has anyone who felt the base game was just ok added TFaR and felt it really changed the game for them?
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sliponflange wrote:
What I disliked about the game is all 5 of my games felt to similar mostly because people keep using the same build pattern. Invasions are frustrating when I spend the time to build up my defense and someone who does not gets a lucky roll. I like the blocking aspect but felt the player interaction was a little lower than I would have liked.

The expansion adds some extra rows to the top and bottom of the normal board, and also provides extra strips of buildings to cover up the existing rows. The changes aren't dramatic, and players always have the option to not cover up an existing row, so it provides some new material for those who want them, but it doesn't force anyone to use them. People may continue to use the existing buildings and keep using that same strategy. You can house-rule that players HAVE to cover up existing rows, if that would be a major concern for you.

Armies are done very differently with the tokens, and it's much more deterministic on the players' parts. It's a VAST improvement over the base game.

Player interaction is about the same with the expansion. Selecting a unique card with a special ability at the beginning of the game, and then picking an event at the start of each round, forces players to use tactics outside of what they'd normally do, but it doesn't force one player to attack another, or anything like that.

Quote:
Has anyone who felt the base game was just ok added TFaR and felt it really changed the game for them?

What I like about the expansions is that they add some new things to the game, without making it terribly different from the base game. If the base game by itself didn't really do it for you, the expansion may not, either. The feel of the game is about the same, even with all the additions.
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Gordon Adams
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I love the base game and to be honest,I do not feel that it is a necessity to have the epansion. However, some felt it added to the playabilty.

The only problem (but certaintly not a major one) I have with the base game is that the battles are too easy. One does not need all that many VP to kill the baddies.

Still waiting for my Kingsburg expansion, not because the game needs it but because of the different characters. Any Kingsbug expansions will make me happy....a collector's item, in my case.

Regards.
 
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Verkisto wrote:
sliponflange wrote:
What I disliked about the game is all 5 of my games felt to similar mostly because people keep using the same build pattern. Invasions are frustrating when I spend the time to build up my defense and someone who does not gets a lucky roll. I like the blocking aspect but felt the player interaction was a little lower than I would have liked.


Armies are done very differently with the tokens, and it's much more deterministic on the players' parts. It's a VAST improvement over the base game.


Yeah, I won't play the game without this variant. Learned it on BSW a while back and have been playing that way ever since. Haven't tried the other variants, but I think the expansion can only edify it for you as a dice strategy game in your collection.
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David Hoffman
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We've played a handful of times with and without the expansion. I would say it would be a very rare situation where we'd play without some part of the expansion.

For context: I dig Kingsburg, but I'm not in love with it. It's a fun game and easy to play with some of our non-gamer friends.

To Forge a Realm has, as noted above, several "mini" expansions.

1 Destiny Cards -- draw one at the start of each year for a slight change in how the year plays -- I could imagine playing without this, but it does add some interesting variables.

2 Expanded player boards -- add a row on top and a row on bottom -- we'll never play without this.

3 New rows to player boards -- some of the new rows are fun and I'd leave inclusion of this up to the group (i.e., with some new folks, I'd stick to the 5-row boards and nothing else).

4 Army Tokens -- instead of rolling a die for the King's Reinforcements every Winter, you have a set of Tokens giving a set number of reinforcements. You can play one each Winter and whatever's left pays off in VP at the end of the game. This is great and we love it b/c it gives one control over one's reinforcements -- we'll almost never play without this.

5 Nobles Cards -- I have the name wrong -- each player draws a card at the start of the game for a bonus that lasts through the game. They can be a drop imbalancing and a new player may not grasp, right off the bat, how to use them. I don't see any reason not to play with these any times, so I'd say we'll most likely never play without them.

So, there you go. All five mini expansions add something to the game. Maybe it's a new dimension to an old mechanic or maybe it's the ability to think more strategically about combat.

If you're not a fan of Kingsburg, I don't think these expansions change the game enough that you're now going to love it. Honestly, Kingsburg is not my favorite game, but my wife and some of our friends love it, so for me, the expansions are a win as it makes a game I'm so-so on a little more interesting to play.

If you think you might box up Kingsburg and never play it again, the expansion won't change your mind.

If you, like me, are going to find yourself playing, I'd invest in the expansions. They do add a lot to the game and your Kingsburg fans will really enjoy it.
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Galen Ciscell
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I would say the only one of your concerns that the expansion doesn't really address is player interaction. The expansion adds more building strategies and a different way to do battle, but it doesn't increase the level of player interaction (aside from a couple events that let you block people and one or two governors that encourage blocking). If you are looking for heavy player interaction, look elsewhere (or play with five players every time, which definitely increases dice blocking!).

Galen
 
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Jon W
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elfrododumbo wrote:
I love the base game and to be honest,I do not feel that it is a necessity to have the epansion. However, some felt it added to the playabilty.

I'm one of those "some." Basic Kingsburg is too static, both in the current game and from game to game. The expansion adds some asymmetry and greater variability, making each game different from the one before.
 
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Gordon Adams
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Maybe, when I get the expansion that I have been waiting for so long, I will agree with those gamers that say the basic game requires greater variety and may add asymmetry to it. But so far, I do feel it plays badly enough to require an expansion.

Regards.
 
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sliponflange wrote:
What I disliked about the game is all 5 of my games felt to similar mostly because people keep using the same build pattern.

More Buildings thumbsup
 
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The expansion makes Kingsburg twice the game it was before. And that's in terms of enjoyment.
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Well, I hope the battles will be more exciting and not as easy as the base game plus: extra characters and not so many advantages with the dice ie: the allowance of too many dice on the board characters.

I had to make a variant re:battles because the enemies dropped like flies The outcome of the variant is now chance of winning 50/50. Maybe that is why I find the base game better now than when I first played it.

 
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elfrododumbo wrote:

I had to make a variant re:battles because the enemies dropped like flies The outcome of the variant is now chance of winning 50/50. Maybe that is why I find the base game better now than when I first played it.


Do tell...please
 
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Agreed. I could see myself house rule requiring all players to use at least 2 of the new building rows. Even then, that might not be enough, as they'll just choose 2 of the rows they know they won't be using. It IS a hit with nongamers all around.


The game really does feel like a "memorize and spit" excercise, only intervened by the luck of the dice and how other players block. .... OK, alot of games have some level of repetition, but Kingsburg feels especially moreso then any other game. To be fair, I'm sure it wouldn't be regarded as bad if went shorter.
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Judit Szepessy
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We played Kingsburg (the base game) on the weekend for the first time and thoroughly enjoyed it (4 player game). Our friend has the expansion and said if you have it you only want to play with that. The expansion seems worth to buy.
Later at home we played the base Kingsburg with our sons but must have done something wrong because at the end of the fourth round we almost got to the end of the victory points. We love the game and are looking forward to playing it again. We find it exciting and interesting enough throughout the five years.
 
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ackmondual wrote:
To be fair, I'm sure it wouldn't be regarded as bad if went shorter.

You should try the 2-player game! Granted, neither my girlfriend nor I suffer from "analysis paralysis," but we finish our games with just the two of us in 20-30 minutes, including the expansion (more like 15-25 without it).

Of course, we had played (literally) hundreds of times and so are pretty efficient, so your time frame may vary

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gciscell wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
To be fair, I'm sure it wouldn't be regarded as bad if went shorter.

You should try the 2-player game! Granted, neither my girlfriend nor I suffer from "analysis paralysis," but we finish our games with just the two of us in 20-30 minutes, including the expansion (more like 15-25 without it).

Of course, we had played (literally) hundreds of times and so are pretty efficient, so your time frame may vary

Galen
Unfortunately, the vast majority of my games with this will be for the 4p to 5p range. For one group of nongamers that take a good liking to this game, we're almost always assured to have 5p. 3p ain't out of the question, but it's more rare is all. In the future, I may advocate this only played with 3p or 4p, but when you have one straggler and 1 or 2 more slots open, we do have to ask him to join us.
 
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Ryan Witt
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The TFaR sound like it would be fun and change the game up some but I keep getting the feeling I'm going to be let down with it. The I idea of playing a character with a special ability sound very cool to me, but I'm getting the impression that I will not feel like I'm playing a character more like I have a character card with a special power.

Maybe Kingsburg/TFaR is the wrong game for the experience I'm looking for.

Thanks for all of the responses.
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sliponflange wrote:
I'm getting the impression that I will not feel like I'm playing a character more like I have a character card with a special power.

Very likely. Kingsburg is still firmly on the "euro" side of the gaming world.

sliponflange wrote:
Maybe Kingsburg/TFaR is the wrong game for the experience I'm looking for.

Probably. Good luck finding something more up to your tastes (and thanks for considering Kingsburg and its expansion, in any case). meeple
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Gordon Adams
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Slabcity, I think I did mention my variant in the Kingburg forum.
 
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Kingsburg with the expansion is a much better gaming experience than just the base game. My gaming group has played Kingsburg dozens of times, and before the expansion came out, I felt pretty much exactly as you did - the game got too repetitive. People would just do the same thing game in and game out and it would only be the luck of the dice that determined who succeeded and who didn't.

Then we got the expansion and it's been a lot more enjoyable. It's not that the expansion drastically alters the game, it's more the fact that there is more variability in the game beyond just the dice rolls, plus many of the new building rows create an emphasis on aspects of the game previously ignored for the most part (for example, the most obvious change that my group noticed was the increased desire to influence advisers 5, 10 and 18 - the soldier giving guys), which opened up more viable strategies to try.

IMO, anyone who enjoys the base game of Kingsburg, especially if they find it somewhat limited, should definitely pick up the expansion. The expansion really adds to the re-playability of the game, as well as fixes a few of the problem areas in the base game.
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