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The Golden City» Forums » Variants

Subject: Scoring Cards rss

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Michael Snedeker

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After recently playing, there was a discussion about the "randomness" of the scoring cards. Everyone enjoyed the game, but the usual luck talk came up.

I suggest using the the Stefan Dorra Kreta system as a variant.

Turn over the first two/three scoring cards in advance. After it is scored, discard and turn up next card.

Players then can see whether they want to go for card points, or long term victory points.

Mike Snedeker, pres.
BGoR

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Michael Schacht
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you just have to know the card distribution before playing.
the first 4 cards are the 4 different rivers,
the next 8 are the 4 different rivers again and the 4 different city parts
and the last 4 cards (if in play) are the 4 different city parts again.
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Daniel Corban
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As mentioned, there is very little randomness to the scoring cards. They are very predictable. If you are playing with people who are more than ultra-casual, before shuffling the scoring decks, flip the cards over and explain the distribution.

The main thing to be aware of is which goods will be scoring in deck 1 (fish, spice, fruit, cloth). These four goods effectively score twice, while the others only score once. "But the others do score twice, since they are also in deck 3", you say. Well, I have played the game at least 16 times and literally only once have we scored a deck 3 card. Every other game has never reached deck 3, since the game ended early due to a player running out of businesses. The game usually ends with the final card of deck 2, and often the card just before it.
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Michael Schacht
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now i see what you mean.
not all come in play, that’s true.
but if all players know which goods have the risk not be scored twice
it is simply your decision to take such a goods card or not.
they don’t have to be of equal value.

never touching deck 3 is not very common.

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Daniel Corban
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mschacht wrote:
never touching deck 3 is not very common.

Interesting that you say this, since my experience is the opposite. Each time we play, we assume that the deck 3 will not be used. It is very common for one or two players to use the last of their businesses in the same turn. There does not seem to be any reason to intentionally prolong the game, since the final few placements are often a race for city points or bonus cards. I see no benefit to not placing your final businesses if you can. At that point, if you are not winning, there is likely nothing you can do about it, and placing the businesses will give you a few more points while limiting the points other players gain.
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KAS
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I have also rarely seen games get to deck 3.
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Daniel Corban
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It's possible that some groups of players are willing to sit with a suboptimal hand of cards and wait a turn to get the landforms they need. This would slow the game down. This is not my experience. In a four-player game, there just is not time to sit around and wait. Sure, one or two turns during a game, you will not play any businesses, but the rest of the time, you make do with what you have and get them on the board. We do the two-for-one thing all the time. Beating someone to an important location (and in this game, almost every location feels important) is worth the inefficient card play.

Also, in almost every game, every coastal location gets filled. I personally try to get myself in a position near each of the terrain types then avoid coasts for the rest of the game. However, there is always someone willing to spam the coasts for coins or landform cards, or just to block someone else.
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KAS
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dcorban wrote:
Also, in almost every game, every coastal location gets filled. I personally try to get myself in a position near each of the terrain types then avoid coasts for the rest of the game. However, there is always someone willing to spam the coasts for coins or landform cards, or just to block someone else.
I still think the coin bonus is one of the more powerful cards and in our group one of the first to be grabbed so every player in our games tries to cover those up as quickly as possible.
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Daniel Corban
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The coin bonus card is actually fairly balanced. Once you have it, any time you want to overbid someone, it ultimately costs you points. Sure, you will end the game with 12-18 points or so from coins, but it cost you during the game, since you were likely not getting the landform cards you wanted. Meanwhile, the other players were using their actions to get points/goods/keys/bonus while you dinked around getting coins.
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dcorban wrote:
The coin bonus card is actually fairly balanced. Once you have it, any time you want to overbid someone, it ultimately costs you points. Sure, you will end the game with 12-18 points or so from coins, but it cost you during the game, since you were likely not getting the landform cards you wanted. Meanwhile, the other players were using their actions to get points/goods/keys/bonus while you dinked around getting coins.
May be so, but since the costal spots require less cards, the coin player does not care as much about bidding on a set cards. And if the other players leave the costal spots open for the coin player to take, in several games they have been hard to beat. Sure there is some group think here, but I think it can be very powerful if left unchecked.
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Daniel Corban
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It's always funny when someone collecting coins goes for a bonus card to find that it has already been taken.
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Michael Schacht
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> I still think the coin bonus is one of the more powerful cards

well, i would take the coins bonus cards first and then start collecting.
other wise it is risky without a reason.
and i never saw someone winning because of this card.
there are bonus cards that don’t block your bidding actvities, steal turns (just always building for takong coins) but fit to point collecting activities f. e. the bonus card for good cards.

> I have also rarely seen games get to deck 3.

"rarely" is correct. it depends on the way you play.
if you place on all harbour places first before starting to the middle, you make a fast end. but you’ll loose the turns and you’re not getting goods cards, reaching the city first or getting some good positions.

i have to quit the discussion (going to Essen fair).
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matt tolman
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Look for my first published game, Undermining! Coming soon from Z-man games.
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Quote:
and i never saw someone winning because of this card.


Michael is right. The coins bonus player will always get a lot of points from it, and lose the game. This is coming from 20~ plays of Die Goldene Stadt. I'm not saying YOU might not play bad enough to lose to a player with the coin bonus, but I never have.
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