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Subject: Is Space Hulk a great game DESPITE the miniatures? rss

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Erik Boyko
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Alright, the Space Hulk hype is starting to get to me. I'm not the slightest bit interested in miniatures, and I am annoyed, rather than excited, by the prospect of assembling them.

I have only tried two war games; Memoir 44, and Conflict of Heroes. I found the former to be too light to be enjoyable. I have only had a chance to play the first scenario of CoH, but I already like it much better.

The only Ameritrash game I have played is Arkham Horror. I enjoy it on occasion for its atmosphere and co-operative play.

I definitely favor Euro games.

The main reason I'm interested in Space Hulk is because it is toted as such a good 2-player game. I play mostly with just my girlfriend and we are running out of unique highly rated games to try. I could go past the 200 mark, but I've had great success with highly rated games. I can normally judge pretty well if I would like a game from the reviews. However, I am at a loss with Space Hulk. Am I likely to think Space Hulk is a great game despite the miniatures?
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Yep. I have the 1st edition game, so didn't buy 3rd edition *because* I dislike assembling and painting miniatures. SH is *much* less complicated than Arkham Horror, and the mechanics make more sense with the theme.

The good news, of course, is that if you make your own components (eg. cardboard counters with facing), you can sell off the miniatures for $100 easily. The bad news is finding a copy of SH in the first place.

I think the litmus test for SH are the Alien and Aliens movies. SH does a good job recreating the tense claustrophobic moments of these movies. I should mention Doom is has a similar atmosphere to SH, though gameplay is somewhat different.
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I am not even remotely into assembling miniatures, painting miniatures, displaying them, entering contests, or any other part of the miniatures aspect of the hobby.

That said, I think SH is a great game just based on the mechanics. They're really evocative of the theme and it would be difficult or impossible to retheme it and have it make sense. The miniatures do add to the experience although I think the Genestealer miniatures sacrifice playability for appearance -- they're so pointy and spiky that they can get tangled together when there's a bunch in adjacent squares.
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Kurt Weihs
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I enjoy Space Hulk for what it is, but it is a very simple game once you get past the chrome of the components. Movement is limited to advancing down a few corridors and setting up fire lanes to prevent the advance of masses of genestealers. There are no victory points to fine tune. No resources to hold back (well, there's flamer ammo, but its presence doesn't make SH a resource management game with the exception of a few scenarios where having flamer ammo is necessary for a terminator victory). Just because it's simple doesn't mean it isn't a nailbiter, but if you like complexity in your games I think your money could be spent better with other titles. If you prefer theme over complexity this might be a good title for you.
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Sithrak - The god who hates you unconditionally
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I don't know if it makes any difference, but the "assembly" is no more than sticking two plastic pieces together, of course you can clean the edges and paint it all, but that's optional, the longest part of preparation is removing the parts from their sprues. I'm just saying that lack of experience or artistic skill should not be a problem, if that's a reason why the prospect annoys you.


Will you like it? Hard to tell, I can't really see someone actually disliking it, but the ratings and comments prove me wrong. If you're more into Euros you might take exception to the extensive use of dice or other distinctly AmeriTrashy features (This game is after all in many respects the pure essence of AmeriTrash), but if you can look beyond the simplistic assumptions some have about this game ("It uses dice, so it must be all luck and no strategy") you will discover a very tight game of tactics.

However it also depends on why you disliked Memoir '44, if by "too light" you mean it doesn't have complex enough rules, you may be disappointed by SH since it does have very streamlined and simple rules, more so than most games I tend to like. Fortunately those simple rules still allow for a lot of variation and decision making. For example a seargant and a standard soldier work very similarly in many respects, but fulfill very different rules, perform best under different circumstances and need to be positioned and used accordingly. Genestealers (except the Brood Lord) are all the same on the other hand, but finding the best ambush positions and correctly allocating forces can be challenging against a skillfull space marine player.


All that said, for the kind of money this is going for and considering your Eurogaming roots, I'd suggest a try before you buy approach, but this is probably not an option. However you should be able to at least break even by trying and reselling if you don't butcher the miniatures.
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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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Yes. It would be just as good a game with paper counters.
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xxeyes wrote:
Alright, the Space Hulk hype is starting to get to me. I'm not the slightest bit interested in miniatures, and I am annoyed, rather than excited, by the prospect of assembling them.

I have only tried two war games; Memoir 44, and Conflict of Heroes. I found the former to be too light to be enjoyable. I have only had a chance to play the first scenario of CoH, but I already like it much better.

The only Ameritrash game I have played is Arkham Horror. I enjoy it on occasion for its atmosphere and co-operative play.

I definitely favor Euro games.

The main reason I'm interested in Space Hulk is because it is toted as such a good 2-player game. I play mostly with just my girlfriend and we are running out of unique highly rated games to try. I could go past the 200 mark, but I've had great success with highly rated games. I can normally judge pretty well if I would like a game from the reviews. However, I am at a loss with Space Hulk. Am I likely to think Space Hulk is a great game despite the miniatures?


Other than removing them from the sprue, the minis are almost exclusively press fit and will stay together unless you drop them on the floor.

Space Hulk is a fabulous two player game without the minis and even better with them. If you want to play the game without the figures you could likely sell just the figures on the open market and buy some pawns or meeples or whatever and own the game for half the price or less. I wouldn't do that for the life of me, but if you buy it, it is yours to do as you please with it.

PS - there are many good games past the 200 mark IMO, but your mileage may vary. Best of luck with whatever path you take.
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Jim Spoto
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Quote:
Is Space Hulk a great game DESPITE the miniatures?

What is with these passive-aggressive Space Hulk threads, authored by fans of Euro-style games?

I mean: asking is the game good despite the mini's or if it's really only a toy, when theres no previous suggestion of these things to begin with, seems hardly like a simple "inquiry", and more like an attempt to chip away at its apparent credibility.

It's as if people can't handle the hole they're going to have in their "top 20 BGG" game collection, because SH is on there and it's presenting a real problem

I mean what what's the issue really, they're just figures! Lots of games have them, but this one with *lots* of detail, requiring some assembly. If you can work an Exacto knife without killing yourself, and can follow complex instructions like this: A -> B ...then you're in business. It'll maybe take an hour to do.

It took me far longer to manage the ridiculous number of stickers in C&C Ancients, than anything in SH. They were even harder to get consistent...

Space Hulk is Space Hulk. All of this has been hashed in other threads, and the rules are available online.

To me, SH is a great game, and great miniatures (to me) is just another part of that. Given that I still don't really understand the original question, here's to hoping this has somehow helped.
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Space Hulk would be a fun game with stand-ups instead of miniatures, but the miniatures make it more likely to grab people's attention (just as Battletech was a fun game with stand-ups when it was first released, but now is a fun game with minis).

Find a set without minis. People who purchased the game to harvest the minis are evidently selling off the other components.

Make some stand-ups of Genestealers and Space Marines (you could even use other graphics - say pictures of your friends for the SMs, and pictures of movie monsters for the GSs - if you'd like).

Play the game.

Have fun.

Don't worry about the minis.
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Randy Schaub
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xxeyes--

The game is completely awesome regardless of its components, but if you have no interest at all in the aesthetics of the games you play, I don't know why you'd be interested in spending 100 bucks. On ANY game. Find a print n play version.

R
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Dan Owsen
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I have no patience for miniatures but find Space Hulk oddly appealing, mostly because of the little figures. This game is way simpler than most games I play. But I even bought a copy of White Dwarf for the first time in over 20 years. (It used to be all about D&D!) What is happening to me?
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Jeff Yeackle
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If you're going to love SH, you're going to love it regardless of the miniatures.

The figs help with the theme, but the theme itself is rich enough that when combined with the mechanics it creates a wonderful 2+ player game (while it's sold as a 2 player, it's easy to break up the squads so everyone can have some fun in a group setting -- although the marines have it bad enough with only one brain trying to control them).

It was my favorite game when I picked up 1st ed all those years ago, and I'm sure when I get it and 3rd ed to the table again it'll rank between 8 - 10.
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Erik Boyko
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Quote:
I mean: asking is the game good despite the mini's or if it's really only a toy, when theres no previous suggestion of these things to begin with, seems hardly like a simple "inquiry", and more like an attempt to chip away at its apparent credibility.


I have no intention of chipping away at Space Hulk's credibility. The reason I asked the question is because I've never been into the hobby of crafting miniatures. Everyone is raving most about the production values of the game and posting photos of their painted figures. I wanted to be sure Space Hulk is well loved because of the gameplay, not because it is a great hobby game.

Thanks for the comments everyone. I'm glad to hear it is a tense, fun game. My local game store seems to still have a few copies. I'm that much closer to picking one up before they are gone.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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My fiancée doesn't care one iota about having minis in the game - they're just game pieces to her, though she does like that my paint-jobs make them look cool and she resultantly gets to play a "pretty" game.

However, she does like the game, a lot, even though she doesn't normally go in for this kind of thing.

If it WHERE just about the figures, there are other games with lower buy-ins than Space Hulk. It was in demand before the new figures.
 
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Darrell Hanning
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I just ordered SH, because of all the noise about it. I'm in a position where I can do that - buy a game even when it's not that high on my own personal list, but because I want to see why everyone thinks it's the best thing since sliced bread. At any rate, I imagine it won't be too difficult to sell, particularly if GW keeps their word about no more of them coming off the line.

Not having the rules to read, but having played Aliens and Bug Hunter Sniper!: Sniper! Companion Game #3, years ago, I have to wonder just how much SH offers that is both different and better (other than the eye candy), justifying such a pole-vault through the rankings. Guess I'll find out.
 
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Joe S
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jspoto wrote:
Quote:
Is Space Hulk a great game DESPITE the miniatures?

What is with these passive-aggressive Space Hulk threads, authored by fans of Euro-style games?

I mean: asking is the game good despite the mini's or if it's really only a toy, when theres no previous suggestion of these things to begin with, seems hardly like a simple "inquiry", and more like an attempt to chip away at its apparent credibility.

It's as if people can't handle the hole they're going to have in their "top 20 BGG" game collection, because SH is on there and it's presenting a real problem

I mean what what's the issue really, they're just figures! Lots of games have them, but this one with *lots* of detail, requiring some assembly. If you can work an Exacto knife without killing yourself, and can follow complex instructions like this: A -> B ...then you're in business. It'll maybe take an hour to do.

It took me far longer to manage the ridiculous number of stickers in C&C Ancients, than anything in SH. They were even harder to get consistent...

Space Hulk is Space Hulk. All of this has been hashed in other threads, and the rules are available online.

To me, SH is a great game, and great miniatures (to me) is just another part of that. Given that I still don't really understand the original question, here's to hoping this has somehow helped.


Oh c'mon, that's not passive agressive! Try this:

Is Space Hulk a great game DESPITE the dolls?
whistle
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Jim Spoto
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Quote:
...having played Aliens and Bug Hunter: Sniper! Companion Game #3, years ago, I have to wonder just how much SH offers that is both different and better (other than the eye candy), justifying such a pole-vault through the rankings. Guess I'll find out.

I'd be interested to see your opinion, once you get it, given the games you've played.

I'm not big GW fan by any means, but for me, SH is great because: what it sets out to do, it does exceptionally well.
 
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Space Hulk is a fantastic game despite the minis, yes. Cutting them from the sprues takes a while, and you need some pliers, but assembling them ain't an issue, that's easy as pie.

Even if you don't care about minis as all (but they ARE gorgeous), you're probably in for more trouble anyway if you want to make paper chit replacements, because although all foes are functionally similar, the heroes aren't. Only five of the twelve marines are "standard", six have special equipment like flamer, assault cannon, lightning claws, swords and one of them is a powerful psychic.

Assembling the minis take less time than making own chits. Go for this game, it's a fantastic tactical game and the figs add a lot to the atmosphere, so they're worth the hour or two it takes to clip them off the sprues.
 
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Belgand
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ravager wrote:

Is Space Hulk a great game DESPITE the dolls?
whistle


If miniatures count as dolls they're those horribly expensive handcrafted sort that nobody's ever actually allowed to play with because they're far too delicate and special and collectible.

I'd generally prefer action figures.

Of course, I also spent a fair amount of time yesterday making Boba Fett fight Darth Maul. If you're too old to play with toys something is terribly wrong with you.
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Adam Brant
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You should try and play it before you buy it. There is a good chance you won't like it. I'm only saying this based on the fact that you think Memoir '44 is too light for your tastes. Space Hulk, like Memoir, on the surface is a very light game. It only rewards those who put the time an effort into learning what it has to offer.
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Josh P.
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Space Hulk screams overproduced. It's not just the minatures. Even the glossy look and embossing on the tiles is unnecessary. It all feels like too much done to justify the price. Imagine what the game would have been like if it was made by Fantasy Flight Games. It would still have great components, but they would be a little more basic. There would be more of them too. And the game would still be in stock and decently priced to boot!
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Belgand
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joshp wrote:
Space Hulk screams overproduced. It's not just the minatures. Even the glossy look and embossing on the tiles is unnecessary. It all feels like too much done to justify the price. Imagine what the game would have been like if it was made by Fantasy Flight Games. It would still have great components, but they would be a little more basic. There would be more of them too. And the game would still be in stock and decently priced to boot!


I can agree with you and I kind of wish that FFG was given the license or at least is now given it to produce further copies and expansions. At the same time it does look absolutely fabulous.

I think the question is whether we'd rather have MOAR PRETTI! or save $20-40 (the average price for the equivalent sort of product from FFG is usually $60-80 or so depending on where you buy it).
 
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