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Subject: Still can't figure out whether I am going to like Endeavor or not. Can you help? rss

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Richard Hoover
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I and my gaming group really like Power Grid, Settlers of Catan, Ticket to Ride, Nexus Ops and Yshpahan.

I really liked Through the Ages but my gaming group found it too slow moving and long. And half really liked San Juan but the other found San Juan too much of a brain brainer.

We also think Memoir 44 is good but what keeps if from being very good is randomness that can't be countered, such as only getting left side movement and action cards when you need right side cards cause that's where you are being heavily attacked from and your objectives are.

No one likes Risk, especially the battle mechanic [Nexus Ops is roll dice too but the turn order and loser choosing which units die are great mechanics].

I don't know if that background info is helpful or relevant in figuring out whether we would like Endeavor but figure I throw it out there and see if anyone could figure out if Endeavor is for us from that.
 
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mojo shivers
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I would classify Endeavor as a medium weight game about as much of a brainer as San Juan. However, it's real selling point is that it plays under 90 minutes (under 60 with experienced players) and the only randomness encountered is in the initial set-up. Couple this with many different strategies to win rather than one optimum one, and you've got yourself a game that quenches a lot of different tastes so to speak.

The way I described it to my friend is that this is one of the few games that all sorts of gamers should be able to like. If you don't, then, hell, you're no gamer I would ever want to know. LOL
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Rock Photo Star wrote:
I Still can't figure out whether I am going to like Endeavor or not. Can you help?


Yes.

 
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Tim Collins
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Celtic wrote:

Rock Photo Star wrote:
I Still can't figure out whether I am going to like Endeavor or not. Can you help?


Yes.



It's a really good game, and easy to teach.
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Richard Hoover
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mojo shivers wrote:


The way I described it to my friend is that this is one of the few games that all sorts of gamers should be able to like. If you don't, then, hell, you're no gamer I would ever want to know. LOL


That's a really intriguing way to put it.
 
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Jim Rogenski
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Our regular games are Power Grid, Settlers, Ticket to Ride, Dominion and Agricola. So my group is similar in taste to yours. So far everyone that I have taught Endeavor to loves it. Once you learn the rules, a four player game takes one hour. After several games, we are still contemplating and discussing strategy. So this means interest is remaining high, and the quickness of play means no one is getting burned out on it.

Quote:
I really liked Through the Ages but my gaming group found it too slow moving and long. And half really liked San Juan but the other found San Juan too much of a brain brainer.


Did you mean "brain burner"?

Anyway, just buy it!
 
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Darrell Hanning
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If, after reading all the reviews and session reports, it still interests you, then just get it. You've pretty much done everything you can, short of actually playing it, to properly evaluate the game.

Anything you get from begging other people to sell you on the product (or steer you away from it) is not going to make a proper difference - it's either simply going to reinforce the decision to purchase a game you end up enjoying, or make you think you have an excuse to blame someone else for you purchasing a game you end up not enjoying.
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Loc Nguyen
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It sounds like your game group would love it, but with you being unimpressed though.
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Mark G.
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I like it, why wouldn't you? jk

It plays briskly, but there can be some AP in the last couple turns, but not any more than Power Grid, certainly. I think this is because there are tough tactical decisions to be made as the game nears the end.

Like your game group, my group also loves Power Grid. They like Endeavor and have enjoyed our 2 plays of it. Most of them rate it between 7 and 7.5. My personal rating is 8.5. Most of my group would rate Power Grid higher.

In Endeavor there is some combat, but no dice. There's very little luck. Luck comes into play in deciding who will be the start player, but then the start player rotates each turn.

I think the game is best with 4 or 5, but I haven't actually played with 3.

- Mark
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Michael Denman
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I just ordered it this week after reading the rulebook. I think it comes across as being smooth but with interesting choices. I'm surprised that your group thinks of San Juan as a brain burner but not Power Grid. Different strokes, eh? I do have some minor concerns about AP. With all glory points public, I just know I'm going to have to deal with someone who wants to know everyone's score when he takes an action. I'm not sure if I should just shut him down or what. But maybe it won't bea problem.
 
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Ben Stanley
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Rock Photo Star wrote:
I and my gaming group really like Power Grid, Settlers of Catan, Ticket to Ride, Nexus Ops and Yshpahan.

We like all five of those games, too, but prefer Endeavor to all of them, if that helps.

I think Endeavor has the best "speed to depth" ratio of any game, coupled with really intuitive rules in an elegant and clever package with perfect information so even new players can make a very respectable showing (making the game superior to and unlike Puerto Rico or Agricola, two other favorites of ours).
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Eric Phillips
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Blue Steel wrote:
I think Endeavor has the best "speed to depth" ratio of any game


"Speed to depth ratio" is a good way to put it. I think this is the game's strongest point. There aren't many other games that can handle 4-5 players in 60-90 minutes, and still be this deep strategically.
 
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Richard Hoover
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Richard Hoover
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MidLifeDelta wrote:
I like it, why wouldn't you? jk

It plays briskly, but there can be some AP in the last couple turns, but not any more than Power Grid, certainly. I think this is because there are tough tactical decisions to be made as the game nears the end.

Like your game group, my group also loves Power Grid. They like Endeavor and have enjoyed our 2 plays of it. Most of them rate it between 7 and 7.5. My personal rating is 8.5. Most of my group would rate Power Grid higher.

In Endeavor there is some combat, but no dice. There's very little luck. Luck comes into play in deciding who will be the start player, but then the start player rotates each turn.

I think the game is best with 4 or 5, but I haven't actually played with 3.

- Mark


This was helpful.

 
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Richard Hoover
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DarrellKH wrote:
If, after reading all the reviews and session reports, it still interests you, then just get it. You've pretty much done everything you can, short of actually playing it, to properly evaluate the game.

Anything you get from begging other people to sell you on the product (or steer you away from it) is not going to make a proper difference - it's either simply going to reinforce the decision to purchase a game you end up enjoying, or make you think you have an excuse to blame someone else for you purchasing a game you end up not enjoying.




This has got to be one of the dumbest responses I've ever read.

1. FACT: I'm not begging, anymore then anyone else asking about a game is begging. I'm asking for help and providing SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of games that have went over well and ones that haven't with the hope that such information will be useful in others providing

2. FACT: I've never ever thought let alone have used or sought people's opinions so that I may use them as an "excuse" if a game goes over bad?

What the hell life do you lead, that you or you think others are driven to look for people to blame to "cover" for themselves in purchasing a game.

It was this silly psychological analysis that really earned the dumb title as well as being insulting. But don't leave out the insulting way you describe my act as "begging."

If that post and your word choices is how you go about responding to people, then here's some pyschological analysis back at you - you get into a lot of conflict and people think you need to be more diplomatic in how you handle things.




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Richard Hoover
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Blue Steel wrote:
Rock Photo Star wrote:
I and my gaming group really like Power Grid, Settlers of Catan, Ticket to Ride, Nexus Ops and Yshpahan.

We like all five of those games, too, but prefer Endeavor to all of them, if that helps.

I think Endeavor has the best "speed to depth" ratio of any game, coupled with really intuitive rules in an elegant and clever package with perfect information so even new players can make a very respectable showing (making the game superior to and unlike Puerto Rico or Agricola, two other favorites of ours).


This was helpful.
 
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Richard Hoover
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Da L0C wrote:
It sounds like your game group would love it, but with you being unimpressed though.


Ah, okay, but why?

Presumably, you based this conclusion on my examples of games liked and not liked by the group and myself.

How about explaining, what was it that I said that made you make this conclusion about the group and myself.
 
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Douglas Catchpole
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Rock Photo Star wrote:
DarrellKH wrote:
If, after reading all the reviews and session reports, it still interests you, then just get it. You've pretty much done everything you can, short of actually playing it, to properly evaluate the game.

Anything you get from begging other people to sell you on the product (or steer you away from it) is not going to make a proper difference - it's either simply going to reinforce the decision to purchase a game you end up enjoying, or make you think you have an excuse to blame someone else for you purchasing a game you end up not enjoying.




This has got to be one of the dumbest responses I've ever read.

1. FACT: I'm not begging, anymore then anyone else asking about a game is begging. I'm asking for help and providing SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of games that have went over well and ones that haven't with the hope that such information will be useful in others providing

2. FACT: I've never ever thought let alone have used or sought people's opinions so that I may use them as an "excuse" if a game goes over bad?

What the hell life do you lead, that you or you think others are driven to look for people to blame to "cover" for themselves in purchasing a game.

It was this silly psychological analysis that really earned the dumb title as well as being insulting. But don't leave out the insulting way you describe my act as "begging."

If that post and your word choices is how you go about responding to people, then here's some pyschological analysis back at you - you get into a lot of conflict and people think you need to be more diplomatic in how you handle things.


Wow you're very angry. Of course you're begging. You're asking other people to help you while giving nothing in return. Sure you're not being particularly incessant (until you demand justification for a person's opinion below, or is it above?) and you gave good information for people to be able to help you out, but it's still begging. Just a bit more classy and well received in a community like this that likes to help people out.

I'm of the opinion that Darrell gave you some pretty good advice. Even in spite of the information you gave, no one's going to be able to tell you for sure whether or not your group will love it. An irrational fear of brown might stop half your group from being able to enjoy the game at all. If you want to know for sure you'll have to play it, simple as that.

Pro tip, whining at and insulting people when they offer you advice, even if it's crisp and presumably unintentionally demeaning, is not going help you get more advice.

Unfortunately I cannot help you with your question. I also desire to know whether I would like this game. However, due to majority of my gaming sessions being with just two, and there being so many good unplayed games designed for two left unplayed and unowned, this can wait. Alas.

Good luck, enjoy your gaming. No need to go after all the people who you presume to be rude with such vitriol. Especially when so few people express themselves well over the Internet. Although I must say, you did superbly indicate your anger in this post.
 
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Matthew M
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Geoff Speare
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I bought Endeavor, have played it once and enjoyed it a lot (as did everyone else).

The main complaint I have seen in reviews is "lack of theme". I do enjoy theme in my games and feel there is enough of it in Endeavor. At the same time, I could see how other people would feel there is not enough -- certain aspects of the game have less theme, some have more.

I found that reading the rules gave me a fairly accurate impression of the game.
 
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Jim bo
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galfridus wrote:
The main complaint I have seen in reviews is "lack of theme". I do enjoy theme in my games and feel there is enough of it in Endeavor. At the same time, I could see how other people would feel there is not enough -- certain aspects of the game have less theme, some have more.

i too noticed the amount of criticism in the reviews regarding lack of theme and i think it's unjustified.

to me the theme of a game is represented in its mechanics just as much as the images presented on the board and the game components. in that sense the mechanics of Endeavor represent the trade, colonialisation and european powers of that period well even when employing abstraction.

comparatively chess is still chess whether the pieces are based on the medieval period, lord of the rings or alice in wonderland.

theme and cosmetics are two quite different things imo.
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Michael Hines
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I absolutely love Endeavor. I have taught this game about 5 times to roughly 10-12 people, and all but one of them really enjoyed it. It plays really quickly usually 60-90 min, and utilizes very intriguing mechanics. Also, the manual is very well written and includes helpful aids on the sides of each page. Endeavor probably has one of the best written manuals that I have come across.

I definitely think you should give it a try.
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