Arthur Dickie
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The FAQ says:

Quote:
Q. Can you clarify how I can spend command points?
A. Command points have priority over everything. In your
turn, spend them however, wherever, and whenever you
want with no restrictions, interrupting another Space
Marine’s actions if desired. In the Genestealer's turn, you
have to wait until one of your Space Marines sees a
Genestealer do something. Then decide if you want to
spend any command points – you may do so to carry out
a single action with a single Space Marine anywhere on
the board (not just one that saw the Genestealer do
something). After spending any command points, check
for overwatch shots for Space Marines that didn’t have
command points spent upon them.


So I think this means:

1) Genestealer moves
2) I can choose to spend CP on any model
3) If I didn't spend CP on a model on OW then that model (and any relevant others) must OW fire

Fine but what if:

1) GS moves
2) OW fire leads to jam
3) GS moves again
4) I spend CP to unjam
5) Must the newly unjammed marine now immediately use OW fire, or is that now excluded because of the deliberate choice of wording of the final sentence quoted above?

I think the latter. That is OK. At least its better than all that "Free Action equals the One Action that you can take per turn" nonsense that we were getting into before.

Take life calmly, Cod.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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*sigh* this FAQ was A) not very well thought out and B) not at all playtested.

I honestly don't know how this should work. By making "phases" between CPs and Overwatch, a strict reading of the rules + FAQ would say that after clearing the Jam you would take an Overwatch shot. My gut is saying they didn't mean it that way, i.e. turn 1 = jam, turn 2 = clear, turn 3 = overwatch shot...

-shnar
 
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John Culp
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it could be written better..but the marine who just unjammed his weapon, had CP spent on him, therefore cannot take an overwatch shot.

Quote:
After spending any command points, check
for overwatch shots for Space Marines that didn’t have
command points spent upon them.
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Rob Corn
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If a SM has command points spent on him, he can't take any other actions in response to that Genestealer's action.

So clearing a jam means you flip the token back to overwatch, and that's it until the GS moves again.
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Kevin Outlaw
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Haggis wrote:
If a SM has command points spent on him, he can't take any other actions in response to that Genestealer's action.

So clearing a jam means you flip the token back to overwatch, and that's it until the GS moves again.


Couldn't be simpler.
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Mark Bigney
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shnar wrote:
*sigh* this FAQ was A) not very well thought out and B) not at all playtested.


Really? Not playtested? Do you have any inside information about how well 3rd ed was or wasn't tested, or are you merely making an "any change from 1st ed was stupid and hence untested" generalization?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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I'm saying the FAQ wasn't, not 3rd Ed in general. These feel very much like Jarvis thinking the situation through and giving an answer on how he wanted them to be (not on coming up with a decision, playtesting many times, seeing which is better, discussing with a group, etc). Course, this is going off my "feeling" reading the answers

And as for playtesting 3r Ed in general, the way the rules have brought up so many questions after just one play, it feels that what playtesting was done was done from players who had played previous versions, and so made assumptions that aren't in the rules. Any time they might have had a question, Jarvis could explain it, but didn't put it in the rules. So, sure it was playtested, just poorly.

Again, this is going off my feeling

-shnar
 
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shnar wrote:
I'm saying the FAQ wasn't, not 3rd Ed in general. These feel very much like Jarvis thinking the situation through and giving an answer on how he wanted them to be (not on coming up with a decision, playtesting many times, seeing which is better, discussing with a group, etc). Course, this is going off my "feeling" reading the answers

And as for playtesting 3r Ed in general, the way the rules have brought up so many questions after just one play, it feels that what playtesting was done was done from players who had played previous versions, and so made assumptions that aren't in the rules. Any time they might have had a question, Jarvis could explain it, but didn't put it in the rules. So, sure it was playtested, just poorly.

Again, this is going off my feeling

-shnar


It was my understanding that the FAQs were clarifications of the existing rules that may have been worded poorly in the rulebook. As such, no playtesting of the FAQs were required.

I believe 1st ed brought up lots of rules questions too. In fact, most games do... Arkham Horror was floating in FAQs.

I think the internet makes this seem worse than it is... Once upon a time, you just played the way you thought you should. Now you discuss it over the internet and get many interpretation of the rules.

Just my opinion...
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Mark Bigney
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
shnar wrote:
I'm saying the FAQ wasn't, not 3rd Ed in general. These feel very much like Jarvis thinking the situation through and giving an answer on how he wanted them to be (not on coming up with a decision, playtesting many times, seeing which is better, discussing with a group, etc).


It was my understanding that the FAQs were clarifications of the existing rules that may have been worded poorly in the rulebook. As such, no playtesting of the FAQs were required.


Exactly. You can fault the rulebook for being unclear--but I don't think it was upon hearing the need for a FAQ that Mr. Johnson first questioned, "Gee, how do jams work?" Nor is it reasonable to suppose he produced a game in which he didn't understand the LOS rules. Rather, the rules were clear in his mind, the produced document did not make those rules clear in everyone else's--hence the need for a FAQ. Playtesting doesn't enter into it.
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Rob Corn
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Gyges wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
shnar wrote:
I'm saying the FAQ wasn't, not 3rd Ed in general. These feel very much like Jarvis thinking the situation through and giving an answer on how he wanted them to be (not on coming up with a decision, playtesting many times, seeing which is better, discussing with a group, etc).


It was my understanding that the FAQs were clarifications of the existing rules that may have been worded poorly in the rulebook. As such, no playtesting of the FAQs were required.


Exactly. You can fault the rulebook for being unclear--but I don't think it was upon hearing the need for a FAQ that Mr. Johnson first questioned, "Gee, how do jams work?" Nor is it reasonable to suppose he produced a game in which he didn't understand the LOS rules. Rather, the rules were clear in his mind, the produced document did not make those rules clear in everyone else's--hence the need for a FAQ. Playtesting doesn't enter into it.

This is my impression as well, he clearly understands how the game was intended to play.

I've explained Space Hulk to a few casual gamers this past weekend, and nobody had any questions like we've seen here. We're kind of a rare breed...
 
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Haggis wrote:
I've explained Space Hulk to a few casual gamers this past weekend, and nobody had any questions like we've seen here. We're kind of a rare breed...


But by you explaining the rules instead of them reading the rules, you automatically give them your interpretation and experience. Plus, if they asked for a clarification during play, you would again give them your interpretation or draw on your experience.

I would guess that you explained things in an unambiguous manner. For example, you probably said something like "parry forces the genestealer to re-roll his highest die" and not "forcing the opposing player to re-roll his highest-scoring dice", which is how the rule is actually written.

So of course there's going to be fewer questions overall ... you've already answered the kinds of questions being asked here in your explanation.
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shnar wrote:
*sigh* this FAQ was A) not very well thought out and B) not at all playtested.

-shnar


of course it wasn't Jervis wrote it.
back in the day that dude could do no wrong, nowdays i see people regularly bashing on him, after looking at some of his recent work i can honestly see why.
its not a nice thing to say granted but there's truth to it.
 
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Rob Corn
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macron wrote:
Haggis wrote:
I've explained Space Hulk to a few casual gamers this past weekend, and nobody had any questions like we've seen here. We're kind of a rare breed...


But by you explaining the rules instead of them reading the rules, you automatically give them your interpretation and experience. Plus, if they asked for a clarification during play, you would again give them your interpretation or draw on your experience.

I would guess that you explained things in an unambiguous manner. For example, you probably said something like "parry forces the genestealer to re-roll his highest die" and not "forcing the opposing player to re-roll his highest-scoring dice", which is how the rule is actually written.

So of course there's going to be fewer questions overall ... you've already answered the kinds of questions being asked here in your explanation.

True, but I specifically didn't go into great LOS detail ("if you are standing in the entryway you can see the whole room, unless a Genestealer is in the way" is what I taught) or whether a blip could be targeted by a move-and-shoot (they figured that one out, "yes", by the way), or how to handle CPs after involuntary reveals (usually CPs were all spent except for one or two depending on overwatch setups), or why any Terminator could spend CPs when a different Terminator saw a GS... it's a pretty easy game to teach.
 
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I have an overwatch question but don't want to create a new thread for it..

When a Space Marine who is on overwatch witnesses a door closing in his LOS, is it mandatory that he shoot the door?

We were playing that it is mandatory for a SM to shoot at a closing door, like it's mandatory for him to shoot at GS's. I was the GS player last night, and tried to exploit this fact by constantly opening and closing a door in front of a marine hoping his gun would jam.
 
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SPARTAN VI wrote:
I have an overwatch question but don't want to create a new thread for it..

When a Space Marine who is on overwatch witnesses a door closing in his LOS, is it mandatory that he shoot the door?

We were playing that it is mandatory for a SM to shoot at a closing door, like it's mandatory for him to shoot at GS's. I was the GS player last night, and tried to exploit this fact by constantly opening and closing a door in front of a marine hoping his gun would jam. :)

Yes, there's a specific rule for this on page 19. It also applies to assault cannons (though the rule is under the Storm Bolter section, this was added in the FAQ).
 
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SPARTAN VI wrote:
We were playing that it is mandatory for a SM to shoot at a closing door, like it's mandatory for him to shoot at GS's. I was the GS player last night, and tried to exploit this fact by constantly opening and closing a door in front of a marine hoping his gun would jam.

I don't think that's an exploit, it's one tactic. Your problem here is that 1) you use up a bunch of points you could have used to run towards the marine and 2) you run the risk of the door getting destroyed, which is bad.

But if you're standing with a genestealer diagonally behind the door (so he won't run the risk of being shot himself) and doing this with a genestealer who's out of melee range anyway, just waiting for the gun to jam so it can run in with a closer genestealer… I just say, go for it. It's a good something to do, and I personally don't see anything wrong with it.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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macron wrote:
But by you explaining the rules instead of them reading the rules, you automatically give them your interpretation and experience. Plus, if they asked for a clarification during play, you would again give them your interpretation or draw on your experience.


Exactly. And I kind of think that's how this game was playtested. Rather than just giving the manual to some noobs and let them go nuts, it was explained to people, and so most questions were answered by the person explaining (whether or not they were in the rules).

I don't mean to knock Jervis, I love the guy and think he does great work. I'm just really puzzled by some of the decisions made with this edition of Space Hulk.

-shnar
 
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Zimeon wrote:
SPARTAN VI wrote:
We were playing that it is mandatory for a SM to shoot at a closing door, like it's mandatory for him to shoot at GS's. I was the GS player last night, and tried to exploit this fact by constantly opening and closing a door in front of a marine hoping his gun would jam.


I don't think that's an exploit, it's one tactic. Your problem here is that 1) you use up a bunch of points you could have used to run towards the marine and 2) you run the risk of the door getting destroyed, which is bad.

But if you're standing with a genestealer diagonally behind the door (so he won't run the risk of being shot himself) and doing this with a genestealer who's out of melee range anyway, just waiting for the gun to jam so it can run in with a closer genestealer… I just say, go for it. It's a good something to do, and I personally don't see anything wrong with it.


We were playing MII- Exterminate, and I had a 3-blip and 3 GS models packed into a single room out of a SM's LOS. One GS was in the corner adjacent to the door, while the SM was about 2 space from the door. Most if not all of the GS's in the room could have gone after the SM, so I fiddled around with the door trying to jam his gun first.

Thematically, it's kinda funny... a four-armed alien mashing a button on the door like a child in an elevator while the Space Marine looks on and shoots at the door like a cat swatting a toy-thing.
 
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