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AT-43 Initiation Set: Operation Damocles» Forums » General

Subject: Is this game gonna survive? rss

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James Roper
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I was interested in getting into this game but not sure if it actually has a following. My 2 local stores used to carry it but have since stopped. Although that is a bit subjective cause Warhammer 40k and Warmachine are extremely popular in my area with Flames of War in third. It just seems like most new games have a hard time getting a foothold in the Phoenix area that aren't the 3 i mentioned.

I have to admit that it looks very interesting and the fact that the miniatures are pre-painted and pre-assembled are a huge plus. I'm generally lazy in this area and hate painting my Warmachine minis but hate playing unpainted ones even more.

So just curious as to how this game is doing? I don't want to invest the money on a new game that will die in a year or two.
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Alex
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Same question here.
Fantasy Flight stopped distributing the game, but Rackham recently came out with giant Army Boxes.

Anyone know what this all means?
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Rackham just released two 2000 point, ready-to-play army boxes (one for the Red Blok featuring the Dotch Yaga and another for the newest faction, the Cogs). Here are the unboxing videos from Rackham:

http://www.confrontation.fr/ARMYBOX/ARMYBOXVIDEO.html

There's another faction coming out called the Oni. Here's some shots of their upcoming army box:

http://thehopelessgamer.blogspot.com/2009/08/more-oni-pictur...

AT-43 Addict has some good info and links about schedules and releases.

http://www.at-43addict.com/

I hope this helps.
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Sean Conroy
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As far as I know their sales in Europe are doing better than in the US.
This gives me reason to believe that AT-43 will do ok and stick around.
Though I would say that some US stores may stop stocking it and keep it filed under "special order".

Rackham just released an army box (complete with some terrain and a 2,00 point army) for the Red Blok and it's newest army the Cogs. They are a bit slow on re-releasing their older stuff due to them trying to get the Cogs' army going.

If you are planning to get into the game try to lure new players in if you can. This game just needs more exposure.
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Freelance Police
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IIRC, FFG has an annual Christmas sale, and last year, they had quite a bit of AT-43 in stock. The shipping is pretty pricey, but reasonable if you're buying several miniatures sets. Maybe they'll have them on sale this year.

I think I saw some sets at GameKastle (GameKastle.com). See if they do shipping.
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Mark Chaplin
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AT-43's a brilliant miniatures game, and I'm sure you won't be disappointed if you take the plunge.

Surely a slow trickle of new gear is also a good thing. Models are an expensive business.

Plus, you do not need to buy every specialist pack going. Get yourself, maybe with a buddy, two armies with a small variety of vehicles and troops, and then you are in for a treat!



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James Roper
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Thank you for the reassurance, I'm really hoping for this game to take off. It just seems like a great theme and the minis look fantastic. Plus as price goes i think these are extremely reasonable for the number of units you get in a box and the fact that they are assembled and painted. Cant wait to get the starter box and start playing.
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James Roper
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johnnyrobo wrote:

Rackham just released two 2000 point, ready-to-play army boxes (one for the Red Blok featuring the Dotch Yaga and another for the newest faction, the Cogs). Here are the unboxing videos from Rackham:

http://www.confrontation.fr/ARMYBOX/ARMYBOXVIDEO.html

There's another faction coming out called the Oni. Here's some shots of their upcoming army box:

http://thehopelessgamer.blogspot.com/2009/08/more-oni-pictur...

AT-43 Addict has some good info and links about schedules and releases.

http://www.at-43addict.com/

I hope this helps.


Yah these really helped, AT-43 addict is a great website, really has a lot of info, thank you!
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myles
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www.thewarstore.com and www.miniaturemarket.com still have some of the clearance priced units. They are especially good, if you're interested in the Karmans (cigar smoking Yetis) faction, as they have most everything in that faction at the Fantasy Flight clearance prices. There are some other units in other factions also on sale, but those are mostly the basic grunts (still good deal, though).

I'd have never gotten in to this without the sale pricing, but after trying it out, I'm not disappointed at all. Also the new Army boxes are a great value, even at retail prices. They're a steal at online discount prices. The Type III huge vehicles that come with them retail for only $10 less than the whole box by themselves!

I've played several minis systems, and this has been my favorite hands down. Hope you can get some interest going.
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Jimmy
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There is no question that a lot of people want it to fail. Even if Rackham Entertainment decides to give up, there are others who like to pick this game up. Confrontation, I am not too sure. Be prepare to hear all kinds of rumors from time to time. The latest one is that RE is going to change into a toy company instead of being a game company and it is going to axe AT-43 and Confrontation soon. Believe that.
 
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Jimmy
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Once again, the rumor about RE turning into a toy company is proven false. Stay tune for more.
 
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Chris
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wildger wrote:
There is no question that a lot of people want it to fail. Even if Rackham Entertainment decides to give up, there are others who like to pick this game up. Confrontation, I am not too sure. Be prepare to hear all kinds of rumors from time to time. The latest one is that RE is going to change into a toy company instead of being a game company and it is going to axe AT-43 and Confrontation soon. Believe that.


There are new miniatures coming for both AT-43 and Confrontation. I hope this survives. It is so much more fun and easier to understand then that other game that must not be named.

I am scared of a C&D letter if I say it.
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Richard Ross
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It's tough for local shops to devote enough space to this to make it comprehensive for the gamer and profitable for the store. I had a strong urge to make all of my purchases through the local shop for hobby support reasons, but ultimately it was just too expensive to buy a full army piece by piece. I ended up getting a few lots off of ebay and filling in the holes through much less expensive online sources. I still was able to pick up a few odd rulebooks and/or unit boxes locally.
Over the last year I loaded up on gear for this. Enough for me to have about a 3000 pt. army and a decent sampling of two other armies. My brother also bought into the Therian army. So whether this game continues to sell or not my brother and I can enjoy years of fun quick tactical battles.
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Steven R
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I'm in the Phoenix, AZ area and have the same question. (Dirtnapper73) you probably went to the same stores I did just this past week. I want to get into AT-43, I have read the reviews and rules and it sounds interesting, but not if I can't find any other gamers locally.

I spoke with one of the owners of a game store in Mesa and he told me it didn't 'stick' (AT-43) and therefore discontinued it.

I think with the new factions coming out (ie. Cogs, ONI, and Later Krygs) it's going to be around for awhile, but Phoenix,AZ gamers will need to actively recruit and communicate with one another if it has a future in here.
 
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Alex
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I've found a few who play it from the days before Rackham's big crisis.
Yes, it's tough to find in the States, but you can buy the stuff online at a big discount, as well as army boxes.

Check out the forums to find players.
 
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Peet Smith
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Just so folks know, I spoke to the owner of my local game store, and according to him the ONI sets which came out in December sold out IMMEDIATELY. More are supposed to be coming soon.

So I think AT-43 will be around for a while yet.

Peet
 
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Mike
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AT-43 is a great game for gamers. It gets knocked around by the game stores because it does not feed the hobbyists like WH40k. With GW games the game stores make a lot more money because of all the additional things the hobbyists need to build and finish their armies. AT-43 just does not make them the same revenue, so it is easy for FLGS to turn away from supporting the game. I love the game. I really love the PPP figures as I do not have time to paint anymore and barely enough time to play.

I also play Confrontation. If the new RAM army is any indication of how awesome future miniatures from Rackham are going to be, they have a fan for life. The RAM is incredible. Best looking figures with really great paint jobs right out of the cheap army box.

BTW, I have been a hobbyist in the past and have won contests for my painted miniatures. And I am still impressed by most of the PPPs from Rackham.
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Alex Nguyen
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Another thing I noticed about AT-43: last year a lot of online shops were carrying the minis at a nice discount. Brick and mortar stores near me did not adjust to the competition and even with people who are loyal to the local shop I just can't see turning down 50%-off savings for loyalty.

Maybe that's one reason the local stores don't think the game is "sticking".
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Mike zebrowski
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TheDarkKnight wrote:
It gets knocked around by the game stores because it does not feed the hobbyists like WH40k. With GW games the game stores make a lot more money because of all the additional things the hobbyists need to build and finish their armies. AT-43 just does not make them the same revenue, so it is easy for FLGS to turn away from supporting the game.


There are far more issues with the game other than game stores not being able to sell paint or glue.

The number one problem is that Rackham doesn't reprint units that sell out. For example, the Steel Troop attachment box has been out of print for close to two years now and that is a core unit for the UNA. At one point, the rulebook was out of print for about 6 months!

And now, when stuff is released, the color scheme has changed from OD to Frostbite. The Wendigo (or was it Yetis) second attachment box is done in a different color scheme than the base unit and first attachment box.

The release schedule is a joke. Stuff comes out at seemingly random times, in random order, and with tons of delays. The new Army boxes are really helping now, but the releases of the Red Block and Karmans (the first two new armies that were not in the main rule book or OD box set) were completely mishandled.

The Red Block had units released months before the army book was available, which resulted in them sitting on store shelves as most folks wanted to see what the army was like before spending hundreds of dollars on the Red Block. The order in which Karman forces were released resulted in many folks being turned off by them as a viable army couldn't be built for months.

Some units still do not have all of their parts released. For example, the has never been a Grim Golem attachment box. So the Grims do not have an Overseer model and players need to grab flamers from other units. None of the transports from Operation Frostbite have been published and that book has been release for over a year now.

The packaging for the first part of the game's life was also problematic and has been the source of so many complaints that Rackham has finally changed it. However, the change is slow to propagate to older units.

B&M stores did support the game when it first game out, but were constantly burned by Rackham. FFG made great strides in getting the release schedule smoothed out and even forced Rackham to reprint a slew of units that were out-of-print. However, as soon as FFG and Rackham split ways, Rackham went back to their old habits.

Rackham, now under new management, seems to be finally changing their ways; however, game stores and customers have long memories, so it is going to be a uphill battle.


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Alex
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Gotcha.
Thanks for the context, Mike.
Tough to know what's going on sometimes.
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Mike
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I agree with many of the things you say. The PPP just do not fit the money making model for most FLGS. They do make more money from the "model and paint your own" armies model. Also, other than Privateer most of the other game companies have similar bad track records like Rackham. I admit Rackham has shot themselves in the foot over and over again. It does not take away from the fact that the game is pretty good for what it is and I love their products. It stinks when their stuff is always a month or two behind schedule, but that is the price we pay for cheap chinese painting labor and customs. Shipping worldwide is a big hassle and we are probably going to have to get used to it in our current times. I had to wait on a couple boardgames that were suppose to be here before Christmas. I just got them because of shipping and customs.

Here is another thought. Rackham was run by gamers before and not businessmen. The products were great but the business model sucked. Now I hope the model improves if the new owners are businessmen. I just hope the product stays a "gamer" quality if you know what I mean.

If it does fold, I have a lot of awesome painted miniatures I can use with some other game system like Gangesha's stuff.
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Mike zebrowski
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TheDarkKnight wrote:
I agree with many of the things you say. The PPP just do not fit the money making model for most FLGS.


I disagree. My local store is very heavy into the modeling side of the hobby. They carry 7 different lines of paint, 4 different lines of pigments, a full Evergreen plastic rack, a full K&R metals rack, a nice wood rack, a full selection of Woodland Scenics products, etc...

When AT-43 come out, they supported it. It received the prime spot in the store, weekly game nights were held, there were a few tournaments held, ect...

But it is hard to keep currently players interested and purchasing new items when the release schedule is sporadic.

It is hard to attract new players when they can't even purchase a rulebook let alone certain core units nor a blast template because they are out-of-print.

It is hard to promote a new army when it takes months to get enough product in-stock to make it viable.

The high buy-in cost is also a factor to its decline. A squad of Steel Troops with 2 medics is $75 due to the silly way that the product is packaged. A player needs to buy 3 boxes of Attack Medusas to get a full squad as each box only comes with 1 special weapon.

Quote:
Also, other than Privateer most of the other game companies have similar bad track records like Rackham


Maybe in the board game market, but in the miniature's market? What other product line has had a similar price point, production record, and has survived?

Quote:
If it does fold, I have a lot of awesome painted miniatures I can use with some other game system like Gangesha's stuff.


I'm already planning an making stats for all my stuff (and I have practically everything for AT-43) as soon as Flying Lead comes out.
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Mike
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Quote:
I'm already planning an making stats for all my stuff (and I have practically everything for AT-43) as soon as Flying Lead comes out.


Just when I was getting ready to jump all over your comments and trash them I discover you are a fan of the system, too! LOL!

I hope he comes out with the mass battle rules for fantasy and something more futuristic than FL. I was thinking FL was modern day without any crazy stuff like we would have from AT-43.

Back to the discussion. I think B&M stores use the "product" problem as an excuse, I really do not think Rackham's product meets their criteria for a money maker. I am friends with the owners of two local stores and they both do not want to give up shelf space to the games when GW and Privateer will make them more money in the long run. I know the profit margin is not as high for Rackham from what they have told me. I have sworn off anything GW (except the new SpaceHulk and anything Warmaster), but I remember back in the day their releases were always messed up and they change army lists every couple of years. That turns their products into a consumable item for me when I have a bunch of space wolves who are illegal to play now with a "new edition." It is great business for the store if I am hooked and have to now buy new models every couple of years for a competive army. I wish I had more time, but I have to cut this short.

We will just have to disagree on this issue. But we can be in total agreement on Ganesha games.
 
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