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Subject: Go - With figures? rss

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Martin Jackson
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This reminds me of when I was first getting into Go (thus before I had acquired a board and stones), and wanted to introduce the game to a friend - I ended up using a load of Games Workshop figures with round bases as they were the best objects I could find for the job.

It seems like a valid idea, especially considering how common it is to find chess sets with army-themed pieces.
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Paul Franklin-Bihary
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Definitely an idea worth pursuing.

One of my favorite thing about the game, though, is its aesthetic simplicity. The simple textures of wood, and then polished and unpolished pieces are part of the draw. The slight wiggle and wobble of stones crowding next to each other. I think the figure idea is a great one, but I'd still prefer a good, quality standard go set, myself.
 
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Randall Bart
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You misspelled "segue".
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Eric Flood
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I can't imagine this being remotely functional beyond the 9x9.

The stones are easily discerned from one another, easing the eyes into the complex shapes created. Chess is different; its pieces behave distinctly within each camp. Creating discernible figures is necessary, and creativity (or "creativity") within those 6 personas is an obvious development.

Even if you limited yourself to a single type of figure for each side, their heights will block areas of your vision necessary to observe and play well.

Unless you play at a 25k level, and don't mind never progressing beyond said level, this doesn't seem like a good idea.

As for "trees/obstructions," well, now you're in Go variant territory. I would find that to disrupt the natural beauty and elegance of the boards and stones, and therefore do not care for it. Unless you created a large "forest" in the middle of the board, or at the very least a wall, the result would simply be to create a large area of dame around the blocked points. The frameworks/territory boundaries would likely ride up against this point, and very little help/hindrance in life/death problems should ensue there, again, except with players at 25k or higher.
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Gordon Adams
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The same can be done with different coloured zombies or toy soldiers !gulp

I am conservative and I like GO the way it is officially played at tournaments

There is also the "proper" way to set the stones on the board .... I will stick

Regards

Edit: typo
 
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Eric Flood
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elfrododumbo wrote:
I am conservative and I like GO the way it is officially played at tournaments


But it can be scored many different ways at tournaments! I just encountered Ing scoring/AGA rules for the first time...not a fan. I'm not sure what is used in Britain...is there one generally agreed-upon scoring?
 
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Marlin Back
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The idea sounds really cool, but that would be a lot of figures on the board. It would definitely work for Gomoku or Renju, however. I must say it would look really awesome seeing a horde of Samurai staking out their claim on a beautiful wooden board. I think some heavy, nicely painted pewter figurines would entice a lot more people to give Go or one of its derivatives a try. Keep working on your concept, you may be on to something good.
 
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Gordon Adams
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I am more than sure that The British Go Association would dismiss any changes from stones to figures.

If this is an amateur attempt at learning the rules, it is a bad way. It leads to bad habits if the player means to take the game to a higher level.

The same goes for Shogi. There is a way of moving the pieces and how to turn the pieces over.

Xiang-qi is slightly more fexible (it does allow for different depictions of some pieces eg: Chariot); even so, the pieces would not be changed and soldiers/zombies would not be allowed. However, I am more than sure that if one is taking part in a British tournament of GO, any sort of figures replacing stones would be disallowed on the spot.

Kind regards.



 
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Todd Redden
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marlinus64 wrote:
The idea sounds really cool, but that would be a lot of figures on the board. It would definitely work for Gomoku or Renju, however. I must say it would look really awesome seeing a horde of Samurai staking out their claim on a beautiful wooden board. I think some heavy, nicely painted pewter figurines would entice a lot more people to give Go or one of its derivatives a try. Keep working on your concept, you may be on to something good.

Okay, but don't do this to save money. A simple Go set can be had for $35.00, whereas 360 MINIATURES!!! may cost considerably more. I think standard Go is the way to go.
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Randall Bart
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In Chess, the pieces move, so they need to be vaguely cylindrical shapes that can be easily picked up. In Go, there are far more pieces, and they are rarely picked up, so a lower profile is called for.
 
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Marlin Back
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elfrododumbo wrote:
I am more than sure that The British Go Association would dismiss any changes from stones to figures.

If this is an amateur attempt at learning the rules, it is a bad way. It leads to bad habits if the player means to take the game to a higher level.

The same goes for Shogi. There is a way of moving the pieces and how to turn the pieces over.

Xiang-qi is slightly more fexible (it does allow for different depictions of some pieces eg: Chariot); even so, the pieces would not be changed and soldiers/zombies would not be allowed. However, I am more than sure that if one is taking part in a British tournament of GO, any sort of figures replacing stones would be disallowed on the spot.

Kind regards.





True. Go does have a high level of etiquette and protocol involved. I also agree that the subtle contrast of the pieces in play and the simplicity of the board and stones are very important qualities as well. Quiet study of the board, the gentle and specific way of moving stones are all key elements of the game. To change any of these aspects would mean you were no longer playing Go. No Dan worth their rank would think of playing any other way.

That being said, using attractive figurines on a go board and using rules similar to Go would still have some appeal I think. It would be in the same vein as playing chess with Civil War pieces. Perhaps not up to official/tournament rules, but attractive none the less.
 
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Gordon Adams
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As I said: I am really thing of GO players not players who want to play GO for fun.

If you are into GO and a beginner, it is a bad idea to start off on the wrong foot....that is all. It is not easy to break bad habits, because at one stage you will confront a GO enthusiast who will immediately spot that your "technique" of handling the stones were learned the wrong way. Let's face it, picking up plastic soldiers/zombies and picking up/laying down GO stones are not the same

As for Chess, ofcourse there are many different sets (from science fiction to Winnie the Pooh !) and they are fine for playing at home or with friends that do not mind. However, try and ask to play with a set of Lord of the Rings in a serious tornament instead of Staunton....

Ok, I am conservative when it comes to classic games. But for those who seldom play the classic games, just think of playing Space Hulk with Winnie the Pooh characters and feel the difference. The game loses it's authenticity, it's characteristics...the SMs vs the GSs !


Regards.
 
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Björn Hansson
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Give the stones bolt throwers and the ability to kill each other...
 
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Todd Redden
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taragalinas wrote:
Give the stones bolt throwers and the ability to kill each other...

Go stones should EXPLODE!! if you snap them on the table too emphatically, setting up a domino effect that scorches the board and leaves your opponent in shatters.
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Björn Hansson
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tmredden wrote:
Go stones should EXPLODE!! if you snap them on the table too emphatically, setting up a domino effect that scorches the board and leaves your opponent in shatters.


Todd! You, me and a bottle of vodka = a whole new dimension in boardgame design.
 
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Randall Bart
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tmredden wrote:
Go stones should EXPLODE!! if you snap them on the table too emphatically, setting up a domino effect that scorches the board and leaves your opponent in shatters.

I hate when that happens.
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robert kalin
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Chuckles: I expected nearly no reply to this post. Just a few notes.

A. I play go for fun. I loose at so many games that to me the fun in a game is playing against other people. Im not a super stickler for the rules and such, as long as all the basics are adhered to.

B. I never envisioned this as an idea for a beginner player but something more of an art pice for infrquent games. A conversation piece to enjoy in a little childish glee while at the same time playing a more serious game.

C. After so many comments about the figures I suppose I should expand on my vision on what they should be like. I am envisioning figures that do not have any arms and limbs sticking far out and at a high angle away from the body, like drawn swords or guns. All the figures would be Identicle. No more than say 3 variations in figure pose. The figures would be more of a Dwarven dimension. somewhat small in height as to not be obstructive to the view of the game area. The base Should be the same color as the piece to make visual play easier to discern. Black Is hard to see detail on the figures. So I'm imagineing a lighter color. Perhaps figures that mimick the 'Clay Army' at the emperors tomb. Terracotta on one side and Emerald Green on the other?

All in all the figures feel in the fingers of the player would be that of a stout cone with grippy bits.

D. About 'obstructions' or 'holes'. I agree only one or two of them in play. Not a forest or anything. And even then prefferably along the edge of the game board.

Thats all.
Bob.
 
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Martin Jackson
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Yeah, I think Terracotta Army would be good - the figures are typically a nice shape with no arms/weapons sticking out.
Terracotta and jade for the colours.
 
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Paul Dale
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Why not use coloured cubes and call it an abstract Euro?

- Pauli
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Martin Jackson
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paulidale wrote:
Why not use coloured cubes and call it an abstract Euro?

- Pauli


Indeed you could have a scoring track around the edge to count the captures
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Jared Hayter

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Go should never ever be changed in any way that might make it more fun or accessible. Shame on you for not being a dusty old curmudgeon!

I would recommend that you take a look at the game Feudal which has chess-like movement of wargame-like minatures with abstract terrain on a modular board. It is not chess but some people really enjoy playing it and consider it a lost classic of the 3M era. Two possible sources for figures for you: raid an existing boardgame like Samurai Swords (aka Shogun) if you can find one or invest in a few boxes of 1/72 soft plastic figures. Two boxes should get you enough figures to play on a 9x9 map. Good luck with it.
 
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Randall Bart
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The Feudal board is not modular. Maybe the tape came off yours and you put it together wrong. Actually, that sounds like a good idea.
 
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Axel Gabe
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Hi,

I also prefer the classic design because it is wonderful as it is.

In addition I have another reason: Though today I primarily play Go, I have been playing tournament Chess since many many years. Sometimes one sees wonderful chess sets designed by artists. Usually with pieces really looking like two armies. However, to me it is impossible to play with such a set. I simply can't see the structures of the figures any more. The more abstract sets (like Staunton) seem to support my vision of the structure behind whereas the artists' design really does prevent that.

And coming back to Go I would expect exactly the same: The visual difference (where not needed) will most surely distract from the essential underlying structures.

Possible experiment: Let two persons of similar strength play against each other, remotely. The first sees the game in the traditional from (physically or maybe on a Go server), the other gets the new design. Even if the 2nd has had some time to get used to the new design I predict this will be a serious handicap for him.
 
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Todd Redden
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jaredhayter wrote:
Go should never ever be changed in any way that might make it more fun or accessible. Shame on you for not being a dusty old curmudgeon!

I would recommend that you take a look at the game Feudal which has chess-like movement of wargame-like minatures with abstract terrain on a modular board. It is not chess but some people really enjoy playing it and consider it a lost classic of the 3M era. Two possible sources for figures for you: raid an existing boardgame like Samurai Swords (aka Shogun) if you can find one or invest in a few boxes of 1/72 soft plastic figures. Two boxes should get you enough figures to play on a 9x9 map. Good luck with it.

Of course Feudal is also multi-player (can be played 2-player) - it only resembles chess in how some pieces move, but it's set up (pieces are placed regionally at player's discretion) and victory conditions (taking over the castle or ALL of the opponents "royalty") are quite different than chess. I haven't played Feudal since the 1970s. Maybe I'll pull it out and give it another try. zombie
 
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Peter Drake
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blueatheart wrote:
I just encountered Ing scoring/AGA rules for the first time...not a fan. I'm not sure what is used in Britain...is there one generally agreed-upon scoring?


These two are not the same. The Ing rules are bizarre; I've never met anyone who understood the Ing ko rules.

The AGA rules were adopted by the British Go Association in 2007:

http://www.britgo.org/rules/compare.html

I really like the AGA rules, because:

1) You can count by area (like the Chinese) or territory (like the Japanese) and get the same score.

2) Playing out a situation doesn't affect the score (even if one player insists their dead stones are alive and keeps passing). This means that eyes, life, and seki don't have to be part of the rules; they're just consequences of the capturing rule. This means less time before new players can start their first game!

3) As a consequence of #2, all of the obscure special cases mentioned in the Japanese rules (bent four in the corner is dead, triple ko annuls the game, no points in seki) disappear.
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