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Subject: Inconsistency in Dispatch order in rules/example rss

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Joe
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The rules on page 10 describing the Dispatch phase specify that the dispatch actions are taken in a certain order:

1. Rampart -> Wall
2. Foreground -> Rampart
3. Camp -> Foreground


..but the inset minor dispatch example and diagram step through things in the reverse order

1. Camp -> Foreground
2. Foreground -> Rampart
3. Rampart -> Wall


I'm guessing the order of actions detailed in the rules are accurate and the example is incorrect..?
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Justin Davis
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I would say that is probably the case. It looks like the purpose of the steps is to make sure you don't move the same troops all the way from Camp to the wall in one turn. Looking at the colors of the troops in the example, 3 trolls go from the rampart to the wall, and I don't see any trolls that were moved from the camp or the foreground to the ramparts. So, I'm guessing that the example didn't violate the purpose of the rules, but the steps were definitely explained in the wrong order.
 
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Kevin Warrender
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And does that mean it takes 3 turns just to get any units to the walls (short of using a "troll call" order)?
 
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Joe
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jerkules wrote:
And does that mean it takes 3 turns just to get any units to the walls (short of using a "troll call" order)?


It looks like that normally would be the case.

The "Sap" equipment item allows moving a unit directly to the wall.

I was actually a little confused about what the "Troll's Call" order did. It says that one troll must "move towards" the wall section where the order was given.. Does the troll just move one "step" closer to the wall or does it move directly to the wall from the camp/foreground/rampart? Does it allow a troll to move to one wall section from another adjacent wall section? etc..
 
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Gunther Schmidl
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You could pretend the example tells it in reverse order:

The attacker moved...

Oh, and before that, he moved...

Oh, and before THAT...

Sort of like a Homer with Alzheimer (Alzhomer?)
 
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Joe
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jerkules wrote:
And does that mean it takes 3 turns just to get any units to the walls (short of using a "troll call" order)?


Actually.. Re-reading the dispatch section, it says the attacker has "two actions at his disposal", and mentions nothing about not being able to move the same unit during both actions (I don't see how it would be easy to track that anyway).

So, theoretically, you should be able to move one unit from the camp to a foreground during one dispatch action, and then move the same unit again from the foreground to a rampart during the second action. If this is the case, it would only take 2 turns to get a unit to the wall.
 
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Rafał Szyma
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That's right, it takes minimum 2 rounds to get to the wall. Long way to go - the Defender has time to react.
 
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Matias D
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I kinda liked the imagery (spelling is optional) the inwader troop movements convey. They keep surging into the camp but since an army is stretched out long it's going to take a while before they're all in place.

And the Inwader's in a hurry, so he has to keep pushing his units towards the Stronghold, and once they're comitted they cannot retreat. Units idling in the camp is beneficial for the Defender (who gets bonus hourglasses depending on how many units are slacking in the Inwader camp) so the Inwader will have to remember to try and use his units, be it for gathering resources or sacrificing the occasional goblin on the Altar or whatnot.

I reckon it becomes sort of like a river of units flowing towards the Stronghold, and the defender gulps and goes "Here they come..." and tries to make sure he can dam up the uncoming enemies for as long as possible.
 
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Ian Kelly
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dedbob wrote:
Actually.. Re-reading the dispatch section, it says the attacker has "two actions at his disposal", and mentions nothing about not being able to move the same unit during both actions (I don't see how it would be easy to track that anyway).

So, theoretically, you should be able to move one unit from the camp to a foreground during one dispatch action, and then move the same unit again from the foreground to a rampart during the second action. If this is the case, it would only take 2 turns to get a unit to the wall.


I think you're correct. It's expensive, though -- using both dispatch actions in a turn costs 8 hourglasses!
 
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Ian Kelly
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I'm also confused about how many troops you're allowed to move in a single dispatch action. The rules seem to say that a minor dispatch lets you move 5, and a major dispatch lets you move 7. But in the example they're moving a lot more than 5! It seems to be that you can actually move 5 from each rampart, plus 5 from each foreground, plus 5 from camp.
 
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Ignacy Trzewiczek
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Yes, the rules are good, the example not. I am deeply sorry.

Yes, you can move up to 5 (or 7) from each.
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Russ Hewson
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Just to be certain -

Does the minor dispatch action allow me to move -

5 troops from any Rampart to wall sections (max 5 troops moved), then
5 troops from any Foreground to Ramparts (max 5 troops moved), then
5 troops from the Camp to the Foregrounds/Barbican Rampart (max 5 troops moved).

or

5 troops from each Rampart to wall sections (max 35 toops moved), then
5 troops from each Foreground to Ramparts (max 10 troops moved), then
5 troops from the Camp to the Foregrounds/Barbican Rampart (max 5 troops moved).

or

5 troops from each Rampart to wall sections (max 35 troops moved), then
5 troops from each Foreground to Ramparts (max 10 troops moved), then
5 troops from the Camp to each of the Foregrounds and the Barbican Rampart (max 15 troops moved).

Pretty certain it's not the first, but does your use of each include moving troops from the camp to each Foreground (thus 10 out of the camp to the foregrounds plus potentially 5 to the Barbican Rampart if there's room) or just 5 total out of the camp.
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Kevin Warrender
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Multidej wrote:
That's right, it takes minimum 2 rounds to get to the wall. Long way to go - the Defender has time to react.


Or if the Invader built a siege tower in the first turn, I guess they could get units to a wall in turn 1, right?

 
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Ian Kelly
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trzewik wrote:
Yes, the rules are good, the example not. I am deeply sorry.

Yes, you can move up to 5 (or 7) from each.


Rereading the rules, I just noticed the Quartermaster Training tile:
Rules wrote:
In Phase 6, the Invader may place on the given Rampart two more Units than the Order says. Moreover, the given Rampart can hold 9 instead of 7 Invader's Units.


First, I'm assuming the word "Order" there should read "Dispatch action".

But what confuses me is that the Dispatch action allows you to move 5 or 7 Units from each location, while the Quartermaster lets you move 2 extra Units to that Rampart.

I'm not exactly sure what my question is here, just that I'm at a loss now as to what exactly the first sentence of the Quartermaster's effect means.
 
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Kevin Warrender
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Peristarkawan wrote:
trzewik wrote:
Yes, the rules are good, the example not. I am deeply sorry.

Yes, you can move up to 5 (or 7) from each.


Rereading the rules, I just noticed the Quartermaster Training tile:
Rules wrote:
In Phase 6, the Invader may place on the given Rampart two more Units than the Order says. Moreover, the given Rampart can hold 9 instead of 7 Invader's Units.


First, I'm assuming the word "Order" there should read "Dispatch action".

But what confuses me is that the Dispatch action allows you to move 5 or 7 Units from each location, while the Quartermaster lets you move 2 extra Units to that Rampart.

I'm not exactly sure what my question is here, just that I'm at a loss now as to what exactly the first sentence of the Quartermaster's effect means.


This has been officially answered in this thread:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/449991


The wording in the rules isn't great, but basically the Quartermaster tile adds +2 to a Dispatch at that Rampart as well as increases that Rampart's capacity up to 9.
 
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Kevin Warrender
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Quote:
5 troops from each Rampart to wall sections (max 35 troops moved),
then 5 troops from each Foreground to Ramparts (max 10 troops moved),
then 5 troops from the Camp to each of the Foregrounds and the Barbican Rampart (max 15 troops moved).


This appears to be the correct interpretation based on an email I sent to the designer.

Quote:
Subject: Re:shipping question about Stronghold
jerkules wrote:

2) Is each Dispatch per side of the board? Or per foreground? Or per rampart?

Quote:


ad2. One dispatch lets you move soldiers on EACH space (rampart, foreground etc.). You can see that very detailed shown on example on page 10.

greetings!
Ignacy


Followed by this email about the Barbican.

Quote:
Subject: Re:shipping question about Stronghold
jerkules wrote:

Okay, but what about the barbican? You can send 5 or 7 to east foreground and 5 or 7 to the west foreground. Do units sent to the barbican count against either of those, or are they separate?

Thanks,
Kevin

Quote:
Yes, you can send up to five (or 7) to the barbican as well.

greetings
Ignacy



So Dispatch is hopefully officially cleared up. With 1 Dispatch action, you can move 5 or 7 units from each rampart, each foreground, and from the camp to each foreground as well as the barbican.

Units sent to a Siege Tower or to a Sap count against the #.

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mfl134
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Just to be completely clear.

Can you use the 5 dispatch action and the 7 dispatch action in the same turn? Thanks.
 
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Kevin Warrender
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mfl134 wrote:
Just to be completely clear.

Can you use the 5 dispatch action and the 7 dispatch action in the same turn? Thanks.


Yes, you may use both.
 
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Mike Kaminky
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Quote:
1. Rampart -> Wall
2. Foreground -> Rampart
3. Camp -> Foreground


This is the order the dispatch follows. People from the Rampart move to the wall to begin the attack while the rest move up.


Quote:
1. Camp -> Foreground
2. Foreground -> Rampart
3. Rampart -> Wall


This set might confuse you, but this is simply showing you the PATH the troops have to take. That you go from camp to foreground to rampart to wall.

When you dispatch, you move the number of troops from EVERY place at once. So you can move 5 from EACH rampart to the wall. The barbican is pretty much treated like a Rampart, as you assign men to it and they're already at the wall, so you don't have to take as much time getting people to ram the gate down as you do to get them up on the wall.
 
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