Recommend
22 
 Thumb up
 Hide
23 Posts

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: The Wargame Spectrum (Poll) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: Wargame [+] TEACHIN [+] OhSoGeeky [+] [View All]
Alex
United States
Walnut Creek
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Aldie created the wargame list in March 2006 in the following thread:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/103639

Thank you Aldie. This was a great help to the BGG wargaming community.

Since then, there have been multiple threads regarding numerous games debating whether or not a game is a wargame (e.g., Junta, War of the Ring and Twilight Struggle). With the latest of these, I have become interested in seeing how the BGG wargame community views a wargame. I don’t specifically want to create a definition, because I think that would be a Herculean task, or debate any one specific game, as I think the broader issue is more important than any one single inclusion. I just want to get a feel for what BGG wargamers consider a wargame, and hopefully generate a good discussion.

Thus, unveil the following poll. It contains a list of 70 games, some of which are on the BGG wargame list and some of which are not. There are a few games that I think everyone will agree are wargames and a few games that I think everyone will agree are not. The interesting part (IMO) is the games in the middle of the spectrum, which encompasses the bulk of this list. I have roughly arranged the games into several groups that provide a spectrum of (likely) not-a-wargame to (likely) wargame. If you find this a worthwhile exercise, then please participate. If not, then move along there is nothing to see here.

Rule 1: Do not base your answer on the BGG wiki-definition, or on whether or not the game is currently included in the wargame list.

(Edit) Rule 2: Please only enter one answer per game. Otherwise this becomes somewhat of a useless exercise.

Request 1: If you find that you are drawing a line somewhere in the spectrum of not-a-wargame to wargame, then please post a response below saying where you delineated the break and why.

Thanks.


Poll
Do you consider these games to be wargames?
  Yes No I Do Not Have Enough Information to Decide
Battle Line
Battlegroup
Up Front
Battlelore
Memoir 44
Battle Cry
C&C Ancients
Small World
Vinci
Wallenstein/Shogun
Stronghold
Imperial
Antike
Risk
Serenissima
Perikles
Waterloo (Martin Wallace)
Princes of the Renaissance
Through the Ages
Conquest of Paradise
Advanced Civilization
Diplomacy
Twilight Struggle
The Republic of Rome
Britannia
Dune
Twilight Imperium
Here I Stand
Samurai Swords
Fortress America
Conquest of the Empire
Axis and Allies
Tide of Iron
Dust
Star Wars: Queens Gambit
Tannhauser
Nexus Ops
Starcraft: The Boardgame
War of the Ring (Fantasy Flight)
War of the Ring (SPI)
Starfleet Battles
Starship Troopers
Wizard Kings
Hammer of the Scotts
Heroscape
Descent
Doom: The Boardgame
D&D 4th Edition
Space Hulk
Warhammer 40K
GASLIGHT
Flames of War
Dogfight (Milton Bradley)
Wings of War
Crimson Skies
Aerotech
Air Superiority
Burning Blue
Chess
Go
Fuedal
Stratego
Lord of the Rings Confrontation
Hibernia
2 de Mayo
Tigris and Euphrates
Manoeuvre
Tactics
Viktory
Friedrich
      183 answers
Poll created by ciscokidnj
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Lawson
United States
Rutland
Vermont
flag msg tools
Boston Redsox
badge
New England Patriots!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What a strange list? I never heard of a lot of them. There isn't a game on the list I would want to own or play. I have been a wargamer for over 40 years. Only on BGG.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sam Carroll
United States
Urbana
Illinois
flag msg tools
Soli Deo Gloria!
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Really? At a quick glance, I find that you own A&A. Don't know if you want to own it, but anyway . . .
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex
United States
Walnut Creek
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
billyboy wrote:
What a strange list? I never heard of a lot of them. There isn't a game on the list I would want to own or play. I have been a wargamer for over 40 years. Only on BGG.


My first traditional wargame was Squad Leader 20+ years ago. I don't personally find it interesting to put a list of a bunch of older AH and SPI wargames that most everyone would agree is a wargame.

My intent was to see how far the BGG wargame community is willing to stretch the BGG definition. Thus, I included mostly fringe cases to non-wargames, with a smattering of wargames for context.

ciscokidnj wrote:
There are a few games that I think everyone will agree are wargames and a few games that I think everyone will agree are not. The interesting part (IMO) is the games in the middle of the spectrum, which encompasses the bulk of this list.


However, I completely understand that not everyone will be interested in looking at fringe cases, and are primarily interested in more traditionally defined wargames.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rusty McFisticuffs
United States
Arcata
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Garghh, the poll is missing the "Sort of," "I guess," "If you say so," and "Whatever" options!
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chuck
United States
Carbondale
Illinois
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
billyboy wrote:
What a strange list? I never heard of a lot of them. There isn't a game on the list I would want to own or play. I have been a wargamer for over 40 years. Only on BGG.


How can you know you would not want to own or play any of them if, by your own admission in the same breath, you've never heard of a lot of them? What a strange thing to say.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Lawson
United States
Rutland
Vermont
flag msg tools
Boston Redsox
badge
New England Patriots!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
infochuck wrote:
billyboy wrote:
What a strange list? I never heard of a lot of them. There isn't a game on the list I would want to own or play. I have been a wargamer for over 40 years. Only on BGG.


How can you know you would not want to own or play any of them if, by your own admission in the same breath, you've never heard of a lot of them? What a strange thing to say.





Not strange to me. I can usually get an indication of whether or not I'm interested in a game by its title (topic).
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Lawson
United States
Rutland
Vermont
flag msg tools
Boston Redsox
badge
New England Patriots!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nope. I don't care for tactical games at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kiraly wrote:
No love for Up Front??

Or The Burning Blue?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
kuhrusty wrote:
Garghh, the poll is missing the "Sort of," "I guess," "If you say so," and "Whatever" options!

Yes, that's why it's a good poll.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex
United States
Walnut Creek
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tppytel wrote:
kiraly wrote:
No love for Up Front??

Or The Burning Blue?


I have been looking at the Burning Blue off and on for a while. Can you sell me on it? Or at least give me some brief inside information to help me decide if it is for me?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Lawson
United States
Rutland
Vermont
flag msg tools
Boston Redsox
badge
New England Patriots!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Burning Blue? You got me there. I could also be talked into playing Commands & Colors: Ancients.

I was amazed that the list had nothing I was interested in although I've played a couple ( Stratego , Axis & Allies) years ago. I fully expected it to have mostly games I wasn't interested in but thought there would be at least a few. Oh well.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ciscokidnj wrote:
I have been looking at the Burning Blue off and on for a while. Can you sell me on it? Or at least give me some brief inside information to help me decide if it is for me?

Well, I only brought it up as it's quite clearly a wargame by anyone's definition and I was surprised that Bill wasn't at least sort of interested. But sure...

Play The Burning Blue if you have a more-than-passing interest in The Battle of Britain. It's a wargamer's game through and through (substantial rules, plenty of charts and tables) and reflects a high degree of research and detail. The game board and markers are modelled directly upon the actual equipment used historically at Fighter Command, and the focus of the game (as the RAF) is how to best cover potential targets using a limited number of aircraft and very limited intelligence. As such, the game feels rather different than many air games, with relatively abstract systems for the actual weaponry and combat and rather detailed systems for logistics and command and control. While the game isn't nearly as complex as the "hardcore" air buff games like Whistling Death, it still requires enough thought and practice that it's unlikely to hold your interest unless you really enjoy and already know some of the history of the campaign. So even though a session isn't all that long, it's probably not a good game for dabblers (like me, hence my very few plays of it).

How's that?
9 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alex
United States
Walnut Creek
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fantastic. Thanks Todd, that is exactly what I was looking for. Your description is kind of what I expected based on the reviews, and is also why I will probably hold off until/if my gaming swings more towards wargames as a mainstay. I have enough wargames now that I don't get played.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Obviously the OP is looking at ambiguity. No point putting ASL or Russian Campaign on the poll, as they would be wargames by ANYONE'S Definition who is not just being a twit.

I also appreciate the black and whiteness in the Yes/No format.

6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Some interesting results are already forming.
With votes in the high 30's Doom has zero "Yes" votes while Space Hulk has 8. I can't imagine considering one to be a wargame and the other not...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad Miller
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
billyboy wrote:
What a strange list? I never heard of a lot of them. There isn't a game on the list I would want to own or play. I have been a wargamer for over 40 years. Only on BGG.


What a bummer for you. You are missing out on a lot of good games then...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill Lawson
United States
Rutland
Vermont
flag msg tools
Boston Redsox
badge
New England Patriots!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Windopaene wrote:
billyboy wrote:
What a strange list? I never heard of a lot of them. There isn't a game on the list I would want to own or play. I have been a wargamer for over 40 years. Only on BGG.


What a bummer for you. You are missing out on a lot of good games then...


No it isn't a bummer. I have plenty of good games I like and I'm buying more all the time.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Todd Pytel
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
billyboy wrote:
No it isn't a bummer. I have plenty of good games I like and I'm buying more all the time.

Yup. I always have this same reaction when someone tells me I shouldn't be passing by game X because I don't quite care for the designer/publisher/mechanic/etc. I have more wargames - excellent wargames - than I have time to play. Even if I devoted much more of my free time to wargaming I could never keep up with all the new games, much less play through the many older titles I own. There are simply way more quality games out there than anyone has time to play, unless your interests are extremely specific or you have no other real-life obligations. It's a buyer's market in wargaming right now.
13 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael Barlow
Canada
Stratford
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
No one takes the time to read anymore.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Given the limitations of categorizations on the Geek, it's hardly suprising that conflict ensues regarding delineation of boardgames. Games with fighting in them vs. wargames, eh? That's a toughie. Next you'll want to re-examine the "card game" debate.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Owen
United States
Norwich
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If Air Superiority isn't a wargame (and a couple of people voted it isn't ) then I'm not sure what they would consider a wargame. Very odd.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
Sebastopol (Ballarat)
Victoria
flag msg tools
That's Karl on the left. Eternity on the right.
badge
I love Melissa, but don't tell her. It's a secret if she can find this. Shhhhh....
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ftarzanin wrote:
I can't believe chess is not a wargame according to most people ... to me, it is THE original wargame ... it's just played on a square board and is rather abstract.

Go figure


I think most would say chess is rather totally abstract. With a mild war theme.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Australia
NSW
flag msg tools
Menin Gate at Midnight, Will Longstaff, 1927.
badge
"At the landing, and here ever since" - Anzac Book, p. 35.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
infochuck wrote:
tppytel wrote:
billyboy wrote:
No it isn't a bummer. I have plenty of good games I like and I'm buying more all the time.

Yup. I always have this same reaction when someone tells me I shouldn't be passing by game X because I don't quite care for the designer/publisher/mechanic/etc.


Yeah, except his passing them up is based on title alone. There's a saying about this in the world of books.


Hmmm, so maybe I should check out Candyland and the Barbie Queen of the Prom Game after all...
4 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.