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Warhammer: Invasion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Big Uns question rss

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mateo jurasic
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Ability: Your damaged units gain 1 Toughness.
does this mean that when you inflict 3 damage on an undamaged unit with a defense of 3, does it do 3 damage, then the unit gains one toughness, and so survives with one life left? Or does it die?

 
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Michael Jordal
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I believe it lives. It gains the toughness as soon as a damage is applies.
 
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Przemek Soltys
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I don't have the rules with me but i belive that toughnes is used before dealing the dmg.

Assign 3 dmg
Check for toughnes - (no dmg so no toughnes)
Deal 3 dmg

So the unit dies.

There is a diffirence beatwen assinging and dealing dmg.
 
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László Horváth
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From the rulebook:

------------
Toughness
The Toughness keyword is always followed by a numeric
value (Toughness 1, Toughness 2, etc.). Whenever
a unit with the Toughness keyword is assigned
damage, the Toughness keyword cancels its numeric
value of that damage before the damage is applied.
Cancelled damage is not applied to the unit.
------------

So, I beleive, that if 3 damage is ASSIGNED, then before it will be APPLIED, one of the damage counters will be removed (and put back to the middle of the table). So, Your unit survives with 2 damage counters on it.

regards,
Laszlo
 
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dimitris filippatos
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according to the rules...
"5. Apply Damage.
Both players now apply the assigned damage to the
cards to which it has been assigned. At this point,
effects like Toughness (see Toughness, page 16) kick
in and cancel damage before it reaches the target"

so the card gains toughness before it gets the damage so it isnt damage d so no toughness. after this the 3 damage aplly and the card is dead.

this is what i believe after reading the rules
micheni
 
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László Horváth
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micheni wrote:

"...so the card gains toughness before it gets the damage so it isnt damaged so no toughness. after this the 3 damage aplly and the card is dead."


Hmmm. This does make sense. I tend to accept Micheni's interpretation, as Your Action is only valid for damaged units, and Your unit is not damaged originally. So, when You play this action, this unit does not get "Toughness 1".
 
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ruvion .
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I agree with Przemek Soltys and dimitris filippatos for the reasons cited: timing of damage application occur right after the timing of toughness. This prevents a unit from benefiting from a Big 'Uns effect. Only a veteran that survived a battle, those that suffered non combat damage, or those that had direct damage dealt from tactics but survived will benefit from a Big 'Uns.
 
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mateo jurasic
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so we are clear that no one is definitely certain?

ill have to wait for the official FAQ, perhaps.
 
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ruvion .
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Actually I am.

We had a lengthy discussion regarding timing of applied damage as can be seen here (scroll down to the bottom of the thread):

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...
 
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Damon Stone
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No the rules address this-

All damage is assigned.
You count toughness, removing an equal amount of assigned damage.
You apply damage.
If the amount of damage tokens on a unit is equal to or greater than the number of hit points it has it is removed from play.

There isn't an opportunity in the rules for Toughness to cancel damage that has already been applied, and damage assigned has not yet been inflicted on a unit so they don't count as being damaged so don't benefit from the Big 'Uns ability.
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Reid Downie
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In my opinion, they would have just had them give all units toughness 1 if they intended it to trigger right when it got damaged so it would negate the damage. That doesn't make a ton of sense.
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Dave Nellis
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The rules are pretty unclear about Toughness. This came up in the game I just played.

On page 13 of the rules it says:


Quote:
5. Apply Damage

Both players now apply the assigned damage to the
cards to which it has been assigned. At this point,
effects like Toughness (see Toughness, page 16) kick
in and cancel damage before it reaches the target.



On page 16 it says:

Quote:
Toughness
The Toughness keyword is always followed by a numeric
value (Toughness 1, Toughness 2, etc.). Whenever
a unit with the Toughness keyword is assigned
damage, the Toughness keyword cancels its numeric
value of that damage before the damage is applied.
Cancelled damage is not applied to the unit.



So does toughness apply when damage is assigned or applied? If toughness applies when assigned, I would say the unit dies. If toughness applies when applied I would say it lives. Which is it FFG?
 
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Damon Stone
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Toughness only gets granted after the unit has been damaged, assigning damage does not damage the unit, Damage only hits a unit during step 5, after any Toughness cancels damage. So as said a few times - Big 'Uns cannot grant toughness to an undamaged unit to cancel damage that has been assigned but not yet applied. After the damage has been applied from that point on they would have Toughness 1, but it is too late for that new Toughness to any of that damage so in the original example the unit dies..
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