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Subject: How complex is the game? rss

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OI OI
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Hi again!

I thought about buying this game, but I was wondering if this game is complex enough (because I want to buy a complex game).
So I wanted to ask you, is this game suitable for more experienced players?
Or is it beginners-friendly (like The Settlers of Catan, Ticket to ride, etc.)?

Thanx!
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Ian Kelly
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It is quite beginner-friendly. You can find the rules online at the Rio Grande Games website.

The game has a fair amount of depth and is definitely suitable for experienced players as well, but if you're specifically looking for something complex to learn, then keep looking.
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Slawomir Krupa
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Dominion is fast, simple and addictive with high replayability. If you want a card game it is very difficult to find something better.
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Steven Metzger
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1) Simple, deep.
2) Spiel des Jahres.

This should really tell you everything.
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B C Z
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My mother-in-law, whose normal fare is Scattergories and Pictionary, had a blast with this last Christmas, and actually won her third game by a point.

It's as easy as A B C.

One note: When explaining the game to newbies who aren't gamers, I indicate that the goal isn't to get VICTORY POINTS, but to accumulate PROPERTY, as represented by the green cards (ESTATE, DUCHY, PROVINCE and GARDENS in the basic game). That helps cement the game in their head when they have a background of Monopoly.

Later, as I introduce Intrigue, I'll indicate that there are other things of value too (the other greens), and by then they'll be fine.
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Mike Tomashewski
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I think it can become literally as complex as your playgroup/random set of kingdom cards will support.

Meaning at first our games were quite simple and straightforward, but now we have tendencies that we all know, so we are metagaming each other while playing the game and pulling off insane combos.

I think you won't be dissapointed.
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spags
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Pretty straightforward. CCG-lite. However, once the base mechanics are down, then the strategy comes in.

However, if you let people know that if they have 8 gold, buy a province; 6 gold, buy gold; anything less, buy the best action/money at that cost ... it's the game in a nutshell.

 
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Steven
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The rules are very easy, but putting together a winning strategy based upon the available kingdom cards can be complex.
 
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Tony C
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celiborn wrote:
The rules are very easy, but putting together a winning strategy based upon the available kingdom cards can be complex.


Exactly what I was going to say. Learning to play is simple, takes about as long as it does to set up the game--learning to play *well*, or to strategize, is deceptively deep. It's no ASL but I think it's a great game for gamers from beginners to experienced.

I like the concept of "buying land/property" instead of "buying points". That makes sense with the theme and makes it a little more concrete in some beginner's minds.
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Jeff Wolfe
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The complexity increases with every expansion. But it probably won't ever get to "complex" in the ASL sense.
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Mark G.
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IOIOIO wrote:
Hi again!

I thought about buying this game, but I was wondering if this game is complex enough (because I want to buy a complex game).
So I wanted to ask you, is this game suitable for more experienced players?
Or is it beginners-friendly (like The Settlers of Catan, Ticket to ride, etc.)?

Thanx!


It's not very complex. My 7-year-old son can play it with some degree of competency. It's definitely not as complex as games such as Indonesia, Age of Steam, or Power Grid.
 
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OI OI
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thank you, but I'm not sure you got me right.
I'm wondering if this game is "challenging" enough, and if you really need to think and plan for several moves ahead.
And if not, what another game who meets these requirements you recommend?
 
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Ian Kelly
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IOIOIO wrote:
thank you, but I'm not sure you got me right.
I'm wondering if this game is "challenging" enough, and if you really need to think and plan for several moves ahead.
And if not, what another game who meets these requirements you recommend?


There isn't generally much planning for your next turn. Your current turn and your next turn are almost entirely unrelated, and you usually won't know in advance what your next hand will look like.

However, the decision of how to shape your deck and thus what card(s) to buy is a deeply strategic one that will determine what your future hands will look like in general.

Does this answer your question?
 
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Marcel Sagel
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Different people have different views on what makes a game 'challenging', so that's a tough question to answer... but I'd say, yes, it's challenging - but in an unusual kind of way.

You are always planning ahead in Dominion, because the cards you buy aren't available to you immediately. You will get to use them later, but you never know exactly when, so planning isn't a exact science - quite the opposite really. It's all about probabilities.
Because you draw all new cards every turn, you can do very little planning for your next turn (although the Seaside expansion is set to change that) but the card(s) you buy will affect the probability of having even better later turns.
(If all of this sounds very vague, sorry - I can't think of ways to explain it any better)

So if you're looking for a game where you do a lot of meticulous planning for the next (couple of) turn(s), Dominion isn't for you. Try Puerto Rico, Princes of Florence or Power Grid instead just to name a few.
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Jimmie Hayes
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Peristarkawan wrote:
It is quite beginner-friendly. You can find the rules online at the Rio Grande Games website.


Well, the rules are available. However, I can tell you, without benefit of having the cards in front of you, the rules are nearly indecipherable. Most card games are like this. It's due to the universal "if the card text contradicts any rule as written, the card supersedes the written rule"-rule.

It's not really a problem. I'm just saying, it won't make much sense without the cards to look at.
 
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Mike Tomashewski
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But to piggyback off of this post, if you have a good memory you can do some planning for your next turn. IE if you know what you have a good chance of drawing on your next turn, you can plan a little bit... but the planning is more internal. You plan your ultimate deck composition, and then try to make it work given what you can do on a turn/responding to your opponent.

 
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Ian Kelly
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vliam wrote:
Well, the rules are available. However, I can tell you, without benefit of having the cards in front of you, the rules are nearly indecipherable. Most card games are like this. It's due to the universal "if the card text contradicts any rule as written, the card supersedes the written rule"-rule.

It's not really a problem. I'm just saying, it won't make much sense without the cards to look at.


The rules contain pictures of all the cards, so I can't really see how this is a problem.
 
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Jimmie Hayes
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Peristarkawan wrote:
The rules contain pictures of all the cards, so I can't really see how this is a problem.


This?



That's not nearly as helpful as one might think.
 
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Matt Sargent
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IOIOIO wrote:
thank you, but I'm not sure you got me right.
I'm wondering if this game is "challenging" enough, and if you really need to think and plan for several moves ahead.
And if not, what another game who meets these requirements you recommend?


To answer your question, no, Dominion is not complex. In terms of play experience it is much more like Settlers of Catan than Princes of Florence. This doesn't mean that advanced gamers won't like it, it just means the style of game is different. Since most people like Dominion, you should give it a try, unless you have something against CCG-like games, or card games, or something like that.

For the kind of experience closer to Princes of Florence, I'd recommend In the Year of the Dragon, Age of Steam, or Tikal.
 
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Gabriel Manasan
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Get Dominion: Intrigue instead. It's stand-alone and a better game if you want complexity.
 
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Anwar Dalati
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I'll have to chime in and go against the trend here - Dominion is dirt simple and not deep at all. A lot of people like it, which is somewhat puzzling. All of my friends who are into "deeper" and more complex games dislike for its simplicity and its lack of interaction between players (which I consider one of the qualities of a deep game).

Among equally skilled players it boils down to pure luck of the draw and only very, very rarely can you say that someone won because of a superior strategy or scheme.
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Blue Fox
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Anwar wrote:


Among equally skilled players it boils down to pure luck of the draw and only very, very rarely can you say that someone won because of a superior strategy or scheme.


I totally disagree, I enjoy deeper games, and really enjoy Dominion. It is simplicity but not simple and indeed deep. After 500 plays, I'm still finding new things and depth. The replay value and complexity grows even more over time with different expansions and combinations.

At first, I thought it was over hyped and simple, but after getting intrigue and playing with up to 6 players. It takes a skilled player to consistently win. Double torturer, then council room how much more interaction do you need? :)
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J. Jefferson
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In deciding whether or not to buy this game, do not rely on the impression you get from the rules. While they are very good at teaching you how to play, the rules do not give you any sense for the strategy involved in the game. This is a game where the depth and strategy become more and more clear and exciting as you play more. I really had no idea what to expect until I played it, maybe it would help to look at some of the sessions?
 
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Anwar Dalati
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Quote:
Double torturer, then council room how much more interaction do you need?


With all due respect (and even taking that comment tongue in cheek), I think we differ mightily on what a deep game is, or player interaction.

For the record, I did not dispute that it takes a skilled player to win. Only that among equally skilled players the one with the better approach will not necessarily win. I like games where I can say (in retrospect) "Yeah, that was a clever move there" or "That's the point where you got us". None of that in Dominion though.
 
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Jeff Wolfe
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Anwar wrote:
Quote:
Double torturer, then council room how much more interaction do you need?


With all due respect (and even taking that comment tongue in cheek), I think we differ mightily on what a deep game is, or player interaction.

For the record, I did not dispute that it takes a skilled player to win. Only that among equally skilled players the one with the better approach will not necessarily win.

That is true of every game that has any kind of random element. That has nothing to do with player interaction.

Quote:
I like games where I can say (in retrospect) "Yeah, that was a clever move there" or "That's the point where you got us". None of that in Dominion though.

I think "none" is a gross overstatement. While I don't see that in every game, I do see it quite a bit with Dominion.
 
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