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Subject: First Command and Colors system game. rss

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Dan O'Brien
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I'm interested in the responses here as well. I was leaning towards Ancients but I play with my kids so I thought M44 a better choice to engage them. I would like to know what is omitted from M44. The leaders sound like a big deal.

 
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Jage
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I've only played Battlelore, so I can't be much help, but I enjoy it.

It does help to bunch your Human units together, but it's not like there's much space anyway. It just means you want to advance as a unit, not individually one piece at a time. However dwarves get the same benefit without being grouped.

I've working through the campaigns in PBEM, so it's kinda slow and we haven't gotten to lore yet, but it's a load of fun.
 
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Kent Reuber
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How much wargaming experience do you and your friend have? Memoir requires the least experience because there's only 3 basic unit types (infantry, armor, and artillery) and there aren't any complexities like battle back rules that you find in the other two systems. The game is quite fun and if you like the WWII era, this might be a good choice to start.

BattleLore and C&CA have more unit types. BattleLore is the simpler of the two games, especially if you leave out the Lore rules. C&CA has a lot more types of units and many units have special rules. For example, light units can evade, warriors can charge, chariots have different number of attack dice when attacking and defending, and elephants break almost every rule, plus you have leaders that can modify the dice effects.

My favorite of the Commands and Colors series is C&CA, but I have to admit that I didn't like it as well at first. Compared to Memoir, it's much more complex, and it takes a while to wrap your head around all the various rules.
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Keith Schramek
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If you are starting out, then get Memoir first. It is a good clean system and like Kent said, it is not too hard to wrap your head around like C&CA is. That being said, I have just begun playing C&CA more and am digging it as much as I dig Memoir.
 
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Trent Hamm
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The game itself isn't important. Spending time intellectually jousting with likeminded folks is the real reason to game.
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Memoir and BattleLore are the two to start with. C&C is a giant leap in complexity that works a lot better if you have the system figured out first.
 
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Seth Owen
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RentonT wrote:
Hm. Well we don't have much wargaming experience at all, but we're good with picking up on complex rules and the such pretty quickly, having played a lot of RPGs and 'big' games like Twilight Imperium.

The thing about this is maybe the title was misleading, we might only end up getting one of these games and some of the expansions for it, rather than possibly moving on to others (we are college students after all and have a pretty limited budget). I guess if we really like the game we get we might decide, but I still feel like I'm leaning towards C&C:A because it seems to be the consensus that it's the most 'complete' of all the games. I guess I'm wondering if that was true but at the same time wondering if it's too complex to pick up on or enjoy without playing one of the other systems first.



I have all four games in the system. But we can leave out Battle Cry as it is out of print.

The base game for any of them is a complete and satisfying game, so I wouldn't consider that a factor.

I think Commands & Colors: Ancients is definitely a step up from the other games in the system and probably not the best place to start, especially if you don't have a lot of wargame experience. Trying to figure out all the interactions between the unit types is fun, but pretty challenging I think for noobs. I think it's a little more expensive than the other two as well and the expansions basically add more scenarios and blocks but not a lot of different aspects to the play of the game. Wargamers are fine with that, but gamers with more general interests may not find that the expansions add much interest.

Memoir '44 is probably the easiest to get into to start. As mentioned, there are only three unit types, and I think World War II tactics are a little easier for folks to wrap their heads around. If your budget allows it, adding a couple of expansions can ad some interesting new wrinkles to play. There's no reason to go whole hog and and get everything like I did, you can enjoy it with just the base game. I think all the expansions have scenarios that only require you to have the base game in order to play, even the Memoir '44: Campaign Book Volume 1.

BattleLore is sort of a middle ground. Many people find the fantasy theme easier to get into. It's kind of like a simpler C&C:A and many of the same concepts like Battling Back occur. The Lore rules can add a fair amount of complexity to afffairs, but they are optional.
 
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Kristian Madsen
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Don't be afraid to start w/C&C:Ancients. I think it has the most replayability and depth of all its siblings.

For starters, there are plenty of scenarios, and the first two are pretty simple and works well to learn the game. Also, the player aid cards are really good.

I would think that you have more "growth potential" w/C&C:Ancients than the others, in that there are a multitude of really different scenarios, more types & interaction. Also, if need comes to push, there are lots of expansions to get.

There are 15(?) scenarios included w/the base game & at http://www.ccancients.net/ you can find countless more. Have fun!

/kgm

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Jeremy Strope
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Definitely go with C&C:A. After playing Memoir, I almost gave up on the system. It was far too simplistic and frustrating. For a small increase in complexity, you get a much better game. It also has some good player aids that will help immensely.
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eryn roston
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I started with C&C:A (it was my first wargame) and have been extremely happy with it.
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Alex
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C&C:A isn't really complex, but you have a lot of movement, retreat and combat numbers to manage because of the many different types of units, and the system contains a number of exceptions. (Just look at photos of the reference cards.)

BattleLore and Memoir 44 have less information to keep track of, so they're generally easier and faster to lay.

I own C&C:A and really like it, but the constant reference to the play aids has been a pain in the butt at times.

 
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Gordon Adams
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Memoir 44 is much simpler than C&C, but if you can get a friend who has played a C&C then you can at least try. You might find the system of any C&C quite overwhelming at first and it does take time to adopt that type of wargame if you have been playing BattleLore or any similar game. The strategy and rules do put some want-to-be wargamers off at first, but you have to start somewhere !

But I , too, think that Memoir 44 is the one to go for, IMHO.

Anyway, Good Luck with your wargaming debut.

Regards.
 
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Fritz Mulnar
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well, for me it is also a matter of investment.

Commands & Colors: Ancients is nice to look at , in a way, and you learn a bit about history. wich is fine. the dice are... well, i do not like stickers that much. the system is more complicated than Memoir '44, which is, in my opinion, more like chess with plastic soldiers. fast, fun. not for me.

BattleLore has minis, is optional fantasy, has magic rules. but: ffg has got it, so there are tons of expansions on the way. you WILL lose a lot of money on this one, if you get into it. but its high class all the way, component wise. the magic, the command center rules. all promise very good adaptivity to ones favourite things. and, as i stated somewhere else: the command structure on the battlefield (flank, center) seems not as ahistorical than in memoir.

bruno faidutti has even put BattleLore in his ideal game library http://www.faidutti.com/index.php?Module=ludotheque&id=473. i regularly read his musings for game buying inspiration.

i have to say, though, i havent got any of them at all. laugh played battlelore and cc:a.
 
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Jamie Vantries
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Definitely C&C:Ancients. If you've played TI3, you will have no problem learning this game. As for all the different unit types, the reference sheet tells you everything you need to know, so you won't need to check the rulebook in the middle of a game.
Otoh, C&C:Ancients and BattleLore are similar enough that I'd just say, go with whichever one has the more appealing theme (though do take note that the historic medieval theme in BattleLore is really weak, despite the claims, it's purely a fantasy game).
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