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Warhammer: Invasion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Warpstone Meteor card. rss

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David
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The card's ability read as follow :

Quote:
Forced: After your turn begins, each player must corrupt one of his units in this corresponding zone or deal 1 damage to his capital. (Players decide where their own damage is assigned.)


I have a couple questions about this card that came up during play :

1. Am I forced to corrupt a unit in my zone if I am able to, or if I can simply decide to take the 1 damage on my capital? Both the word must and or are used in the same sentence so I am inclined to say that you can choose to either corrupt a unit or take the damage.

2. Does "After your turn begins" means this ability trigger before the kingdom phase? Say I have this card in one of my zone as well as a corrupted unit in it at the begining of my turn. Can I uncorrupt my unit and then corrupt it again to satisfy the requirement of Warpstone Meteor?

3. If you have multiple forced abilities that trigger at the begining of your turn, in which order do you resolve them? Does the owner of the cards decide on the order?
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Michael Jordal
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Right now there probably isn't enough corruption cards to make this card real good, but there will be more I am sure. As long as your opponent isn't running corruption too it isn't too big of a deal to corrupt one of your units.
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1. The key word is "Must" which is ONLY THEN followed by "OR" - you have to corrupt a unit if one is available and able to be corrupted. Unfortunately, you don't really get a choice in the matter.

2. Yes, you could un-corrupt a Unit and then re-corrupt it per Warpstone Meteor's requirement. Right now there is a good amount of vagueness over the timing of events or actions that happen "after your turn begins." Most of us are fairly sure that the active player will be able to decide what order his actions occur when they happen all at the beginning of his turn.

3. Ostensibly, the owners of the cards that are triggering would get to decide the order.


There are a few ways in which this card is advantageous, actually. Since you're given a secondary option to fulfill if you don't have a unit to corrupt, it allows you to Corrupt enemy units if you have this Support card in the right zone (say an empty zone or something). Also, some cards benefit from having damage on them which this card (again) also allows IF you can't meet the primary requirement. There are definitely uses for this card, you may have to dig a bit but I'm sure it'll come into play a lot more once new cards are released that bring Corruption back into the forefront (hopefully that'll be the case as Corruption and Chaos are a bit underpowered at the moment, imho).
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Ken Haggard
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Ran into this scenario this weekend. We decided to rule it as such:

At the start of my next turn:

1) All players corrupt one unit.
2) Uncorrupt the same unit.
3) Attack his now defenseless area.

Until they put out an FAQ, which states what the timing is for the upkeep phase, this is the ruling we have decided on. We all thought is was kinda of in the spirit of Chaos.
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David
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wytefang wrote:
1. The key word is "Must" which is ONLY THEN followed by "OR" - you have to corrupt a unit if one is available and able to be corrupted. Unfortunately, you don't really get a choice in the matter.


I perfectly understand your reasoning here and it may be what the designer intended. But the way I analyze this sentence is that the keyword "must" apply to the rest of the sentence. I see the sentence as being simply : "You must (do) A or B." where A is corrupting a unit and B is take 1 damage in my capital. It is obvious to me in this simplified version that you do have a choice between executing A or B.

If it would have been written like : "You must (do) A else (do) B" then I would have agreed that you must do A, if you are able to, before doing B.

Maybe it is just my programming mind that is working here, but I just cannot agree that the "Must" in the sentence just take priority over the "Or". The very definition of "or" is a logical choice between 2 things. Why place a "or" in a sentence if I am not even giving the choice?
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You're doing what we used to call in the Navy "nuking it." (Which was a slightly derogatory term referring to sailors in the Nuclear Propulsion program who were extremely smart but frequently all too prone to overthinking things.)

Try not to over-think these things. A quick read-through makes it fairly apparent how this card needs to be played, any other interpretation makes the card seem fairly impotent.
 
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Therron Thomas
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Istaril wrote:
wytefang wrote:
1. The key word is "Must" which is ONLY THEN followed by "OR" - you have to corrupt a unit if one is available and able to be corrupted. Unfortunately, you don't really get a choice in the matter.


I perfectly understand your reasoning here and it may be what the designer intended. But the way I analyze this sentence is that the keyword "must" apply to the rest of the sentence. I see the sentence as being simply : "You must (do) A or B." where A is corrupting a unit and B is take 1 damage in my capital. It is obvious to me in this simplified version that you do have a choice between executing A or B.

If it would have been written like : "You must (do) A else (do) B" then I would have agreed that you must do A, if you are able to, before doing B.

Maybe it is just my programming mind that is working here, but I just cannot agree that the "Must" in the sentence just take priority over the "Or". The very definition of "or" is a logical choice between 2 things. Why place a "or" in a sentence if I am not even giving the choice?


It took me a couple of reads to get what you are saying but I see your point. I guess my question would be then, why would you not take choice A over choice B? Damage is not easily repaired where as having the choice to corrupt a card would be much more advantageous to the defender.

I am not sure everyone sees this as I do but doesn't this mean that even tthe player who plays the card also has to corrupt or damage? Its does read "Each player", not making distinction between friend and foe.
 
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Steve Zamborsky
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Correct, Therron. Each player has to either corrupt a unit or deal the 1 damage. It's advantageous to the player controlling the Meteor because they can just restore their unit they have in that zone, forcing their opponent to leave that zone less defended.
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Damon Stone
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Careful about trying to use programming logic. I'm not saying it is leading you to an incorrect conclusion, I'm just saying it is not inherently correct, or even more accurate for this game than common English. If you really question whether you have a "do A or B" choice or whether it is a "do A, else do b" send it to Nate the lead designer.
 
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Markus Seger
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You are free to choose: either you corrupt one of your units or you deal 1 damage to your capital. Nothing in the card texts indicates that you can't choose to deal damage if you control a unit.
 
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David
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Yes, maybe I am indeed over-thinking things here about the intentions of the card's text. I understand what everyone is saying and it does make a lot of sense that you must corrupt a unit if you are able to, but I like to analyze everything from differents angles before drawing hasty conclusions.

However, I still strongly believe that the wording on the card is confusing at best and that the "or" doesn't need to be part of the card's description. If it would have been written like this, it would have been a LOT easier to understand the true intentions of the card :

Quote:
Forced: After your turn begins, each player must corrupt one of his units in this corresponding zone. If a player is unable to corrupt a unit, that player must deal 1 damage to his capital. (Players decide where their own damage is assigned.)


It is a description that is a little longer, but it totally remove any confusions in which orders to do things.

I do, however, appreciate everyone's input in this discussion.

Edit: Added a line break after the smiley to make the text a little more readable
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AxonDomini
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I'm leaning very heavily toward Istaril's reading here. It reads very simply as "Each player must do A or B," which sounds clearly like a choice to me. I don't see anything that suggests that the players must do A and may only do B if A is not possible.
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Przemek
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I think if you would have a choice to corrupt a unit (if you have one) or deal 1 damage to capital card text would be like:
"After your turn begins, each player corrupt one of his unit in this corresponding zone or deal 1 damage to his capital"
or
"After your turn begins, each player must either corrupt one of his unit in this corresponding zone or deal 1 damage to his capital"
 
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mateo jurasic
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the problem is that both of the interpretations are grammatically correct, because the english language has a lot of vagueness, and the card as written is simply unclear.

This requires an FAQ, unless people like to endlessly debate.

 
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Przemek
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Doom Divers got "must either". If you would have a choice in Warpstone Meteor there would be similar wording there.
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