Recommend
11 
 Thumb up
 Hide
28 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

1830: The Coalfields» Forums » General

Subject: Dedicated 1830 Coalfields map rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: MAP [+] Awesome! [+] [View All]
Peter Mumford
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
ceci n'est pas une pipe
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This map came together very quickly. It has benefitted from the eyes and minds of everyone who generously commented on my 1830 map re-draw.

A few things to consider.

-I took guesses at the city names. Christiansburg is a stretch. The 1857 RR map had no junction of any consequence near that spot. Lexington is a guess, but it could as well be Danville. Is the C&O supposed to base in Richmond? It looked like Charlottesville to me but I can change. Hex is K13.

- I colorized the privates. A user, Michael Shaver, suggested they could stand out, I liked that.

- The designers are credited. Then I credited Tresham on the 1830 map and submitted a new file for that too!

- Coalfields is a big map: 21x20 inches. A one piece pdf won't fit on BGG's servers. I am figuring on cutting it into 4 pieces, which can print on 4 tabloid sheets.

- I have not played this game (nor 1830 yet). Can someone explain the logic behind the Chicago and Gulf red areas? They seem contrary to the usual red area play, i.e. you can't go through a red region on on to another city. The idea of a train heading to Chicago but making a U-turn in Ohio and heading to Columbus is baffling.. and then getting paid for Chicago?

5 
 Thumb up
3.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher M
United States
Flowood
MS
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You haven't failed to wow me. Great job!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
The western off-boards in Coalfields are ahistorical almost certainly. For instance IIRC one of the ways that Chicago became the huge railway town that it was, was that it made all lines terminate in Chicago -- none were allowed to run through.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
keith gell
United Kingdom
eastbourne
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just Amazing!

Can I get a copy printed on Artscow please?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
photocurio wrote:
Is the C&O supposed to base in Richmond?


Yes. The C&O famously ran to Richmond.

Quote:
- The designers are credited. Then I credited Tresham on the 1830 map and submitted a new file for that too!


Nice. You might consider using "Alan R moon" as that's what he seems to use elsewhere, but it is not a big deal.

Quote:
- Coalfields is a big map: 21x20 inches. A one piece pdf won't fit on BGG's servers. I am figuring on cutting it into 4 pieces, which can print on 4 tabloid sheets.


Fair dinkum.

Quote:
- I have not played this game (nor 1830 yet). Can someone explain the logic behind the Chicago and Gulf red areas?


Not really. They're effectively no longer off-boards in the classic sense, just un-tokenable cities which auto-upgrade..and represent areas too far off the board to represent directly. Additionally the fact that they can (now) be run-through makes a huge difference to the game.

Quote:
They seem contrary to the usual red area play, i.e. you can't go through a red region on on to another city.


They are odd. Not uniquely odd, but odd.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Chunko
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
mb
clearclaw wrote:
photocurio wrote:
They seem contrary to the usual red area play, i.e. you can't go through a red region on on to another city.

They are odd. Not uniquely odd, but odd.

Since this is a chance to "fix" things, would it make more sense to redraw them as large black circles? The current representation always bothered me - it implies they don't count as a stop.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
The problem with changing them is that you'd be bucking the trend of the other 18xx with run-through off-boards, as well as the precedent set by 1830 Coafields to date. This is a redraw, not an attempt to reset propriety.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Chunko
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
mb
But if we don't take a stand for what is right who will?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Mumford
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
ceci n'est pas une pipe
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
easypeasy wrote:
Just Amazing!

Can I get a copy printed on Artscow please?


Sure, if they will print that size (21x20 inches). I just uploaded a high-res jpeg image to the gallery. I'll be uploading four-part pdf files for printing at office-printing shops soon.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
BrenoK wrote:
Edit, now that I've looked at the map: holy crap, there are many many differences. Totally different game.


Now factor in that there are more trains, 7-trains too, diesels are cheaper, trains don't rust but rather obsolete, the bank is larger, NY goes to a single city, Boston goes to a double-station, Baltimore goes to a treble-station, and the double-dit next to NY can be collapsed to a single 5-way dit in brown. Yeah, this is a whole new game. Oh, and those coalfields? They're pretty good too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Chunko
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
mb
BrenoK wrote:
1856 and 18EU also have run-through red hexes.


It was wrong then, and it's wrong now!

Clearly those boards should be redone next!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Shaffer
United States
San Francisco
CA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jeff Chunko wrote:
BrenoK wrote:
1856 and 18EU also have run-through red hexes.


It was wrong then, and it's wrong now!

Clearly those boards should be redone next!


But in 18EU, the run through can count as a start/end station to get the red-to-red bonus, so if you changed it to grey you'd need to have a special rule to account for red-to-red bonuses.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Chunko
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
mb
TheCat wrote:
But in 18EU, the run through can count as a start/end station to get the red-to-red bonus, so if you changed it to grey you'd need to have a special rule to account for red-to-red bonuses.


It's not the color that bothers me as much as the fact that you're getting income for visiting a hex without a stop. A large solid black city would be much clearer.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Flood
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I want to make this clear for myself and others, having yet to play the Coalfields:

Does running through that Red Chicago count as a station for your trains?

If so, Can you start/stop there? Do both?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
blueatheart wrote:
Does running through that Red Chicago count as a station for your trains?


Yes.

Quote:
If so, Can you start/stop there? Do both?


Yes, with the normal constraints that the the route must intersect a company token and that a single train may not hit the same off-board twice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Chunko
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
mb

grumbles to himself about how a large black city would be much more clear...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Mumford
United States
Somerville
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
ceci n'est pas une pipe
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jeff Chunko wrote:

grumbles to himself about how a large black city would be much more clear...

There is a precedent for this (black pass-though cities with dual income). Note treatment of cities Tallahassee and Montgomery:
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
1856 is a stronger precedent in the other direction:



Oh and Alan Moon's and Bruce Shelley's original art for 1830 Coalfields show it as a red pass-through, an even better precedent. Either way it is a presentation detail that is insignificant to play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Knight
Australia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi, I love the work for this variant and previous artworks you have produced.

However, I just noticed there is a typo. The SVRR should be Schuylkill Valley RR not Schuykill Valley RR.

As an aside, in 1825 Unit 2 one of the towns in Fife is printed as Kirkcady, but in fact should be Kirkcaldy. In both cases the L is not pronounced but is there when written.

Still a great piece of art and I look forward to making up a board from it. Thanks.

Jim
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Knight
Australia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I know I've come to this debate about a year and a half too late, but I have a lot of sympathy for Jeff's position regarding the through route red off-board hexes.

I have played 18EU a number of times now and a couple of players in our group, including myself, forget on a regular basis that either Hamburg is run a through that counts for revenue or that routes can begin and end there as the artwork does not explicitly show a large/city station.

In the 1856 example (a game I haven't played) there are large/city circles shown within the red off-board hexes which appear to be home bases for some companies. However, they are not shown connected as a through route, presumably as they are terminii. I also not that the city circles are not very clear in the picture of the board posted. Are they clearer on the board itself or is this just an artifact of scanning?

I think as a through route an addition of a large/city circle, e.g. outlined in black but still red as per the hex, with the track shown, as in the example of the small/minor town example from 18GA, would be clearer and acceptable to the majority of the 18xx community.

Where routes terminate in a large/city station then the pointed ends to the track would still apply as normal but should be clearly be shown pointed to the respective city circles.

In 18Scan this is the case and the city circles are white to indicate that they can be tokened. If they were red as per the background of the hex, or black like the track, then that could/would indicate that the city station could not be tokened (and could also be applied to through routes).

Well that's my tuppence worth. What does everyone think?

Jim
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
Many games have run-through non-tokenable off-boards. Usually they are shown with a revenue scale and simple track running through the red section. Sometimes there is a dit-town on the track in order to clarify the notion of a revenue location. Non-tokenable circles would be confusing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
1817 has standard off-boards with spikes much like almost all other 18xx. None of them are run-through. Where's the problem?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Petersen
United States
St. Louis Park
Minnesota
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
I think the city in question is the Toronto hex marked "Open Station."
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Knight
Australia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
clearclaw wrote:
Many games have run-through non-tokenable off-boards. Usually they are shown with a revenue scale and simple track running through the red section. Sometimes there is a dit-town on the track in order to clarify the notion of a revenue location. Non-tokenable circles would be confusing.


Indeed 18Scan has the 'dit-town'for the mining area Kiruna. I can see how having a non-tokenable circle may change the type of confusion say wrt to Hamburg in 18EU.

How would you tackle the problem, that Jeff had, in ensuring that run-through off-board red hexes are shown as both terminii and count as part of a revenue scoring route?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
My preference is spikes for terminii and plain track lines in the red offboard, with or without a dit, for run-throughs. There are too many games with tokenable offboards (er 18Gl & 18Rhl) and special rules for offboard tokens to allow extraneous circles.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.