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Subject: The Small World thread conflict. What happened to all of us? A POLL rss

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D T P
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The recent thread about removing Small World from the Golden Geek Awards Wargaming Catagory generated an enormous amount of discussion. It may have been the most active thread ever seen on BGG. It also seemed to be one of the most argumentative threads I've ever seen here.
To me it seemed to start out as somewhat entertaining but gradually became angry almost to the point of viciousness. I was actually somewhat stunned by many of the posts I read.

So I started wondering what happened? How did it become so angry sounding? What caused so many of us to become so entrenched in our positions that we logged 19 (and still counting) pages of postings? So I created a poll to see what we all felt about what happened. I hope we can participate in this poll in the spirit of comraderie and not hostility.

Be polite! If you want to continue the argument about whether it is a wargame or not go to the Complaint Department Forum and argue there. This is a fact finding thread, not a continuation of the bickering. So please be civil.

The poll is a bit long and some may not feel it is complete. Take some time to help us figure out what happened to us all. If you feel it is incomplete say what you think is wrong with the poll in a post. But try your best to answer what you can. Thank you in advance.



Poll
1. What is your feelings about the recent thread about removing the game Small World from the wargame catagory of the Golden Geek Awards?
The thread was informative, inspiring and/or useful.
The thread was meaningful but only a little.
The thread was useless and/or totally uninspiring.
The thread was argumentative and full of conflict.
The thread was harmful to the wargaming forum.
Other, please explain.
2. What are your feeling about the posts that were posted in the thread?
Most who posted were polite and politically correct in their manners.
Some were polite and some were not.
Most who posted were mean spirited and rude.
Many of the posts were angry and rude.
Almost all who posted were exceptionally rude and cruel.
other, please explain.
3. What percentage of those who posted do you think should be classified as wargamers?
100%
90%
80%
70%
60%
50%
40%
30%
20%
10%
0
unsure
4. Who were more disrespectful?
Those who argued that Small World was a wargame.
Those who argued Small World was not a wargame.
About the same.
Unsure.
5. In your opinion is Small World a wargame or not?
Small World is a wargame.
Small World is not a wargame.
Don't know.
It doesn't matter.
other, please explain.
6. What affect does Small Worlds nomination as a wargame have on the Golden Geek Award?
It is a correct nomination and is justified.
It may or may not be correct but doesn't affect the Golden Geek Awards.
It harms the creditability of the awards.
I don't care about the awards anyway.
unsure.
7. Does the Golden Geek Award nominating process work?
It works fine and should not be changed in any way.
It works pretty good but needs a few simple changes.
It works OK but could be improved by a lot of simple changes.
It doesn't work well at all and should be completely redesigned.
Don't care.
other, please explain.
      112 answers
Poll created by xlhrider
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mark camp
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You're missing the one question that exlains the whole thing, and almost every other conflict on this site as well:

What percentage of users lost sight of the fact that Small World, along with all the other nominees are just games; paper and carboard and plastic meant to entertain, nothing more?
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Tony C
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I think that some people in the 'hardcore gaming" demographic consciously or subconsciously resents gaming become more "mainstream", and Small World and its widespread accessibility and popularity is a very visible symbol of that. From what I've seen, wargamers are some of the hardest of the hardcore. Some people take joy or pride or validation in the fact that the thing they're into isn't very popular or accessible.

And yeah, many people take all this stuff way too seriously.
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Leo Zappa
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bob_the_goon wrote:
You're missing the one question that exlains the whole thing, and almost every other conflict on this site as well:

What percentage of users lost sight of the fact that Small World, along with all the other nominees are just games; paper and carboard and plastic meant to entertain, nothing more?


Amen! I like to think of myself as a wargamer, though I play other types of games too. I just couldn't think of a useful post to make in that thread that would serve a beneficial purpose, so I just read some of the posts and shook my head, kinda like this...

shake

Small World? I don't know whether or not it's a wargame, and I haven't played it yet, though at least one person in our game group owns it. It does sound like it could be fun, though, and I will give it a spin.

Do awards really matter? I mean, I couldn't tell you who won last year's GG award in any category, nor could I tell you who won last years Charles S. Roberts awards, or any other awards either. Hasn't detracted from my gaming enjoyment at all. I can't see how any of this is important enough for people to get all worked up and seriously insult other site members. Just play the damn games!
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Chris Schenck
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xlhrider wrote:
4. Who were more disrespectful?
O Those who argued that Small World was a wargame.
O Those who argued Small World was not a wargame.
O About the same.
O Unsure.

This question in particular serves NO purpose other than to reignite the flames of the previous thread.
Why would you post such a thing? This question won't help us "learn" anything. It will only provide fuel for conflict.
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D T P
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cbs42 wrote:
xlhrider wrote:
4. Who were more disrespectful?
O Those who argued that Small World was a wargame.
O Those who argued Small World was not a wargame.
O About the same.
O Unsure.

This question in particular serves NO purpose other than to reignite the flames of the previous thread.
Why would you post such a thing? This question won't help us "learn" anything. It will only provide fuel for conflict.


The reason I put this question in the poll was because I suspected that there was an almost equal amount of disrespectful comments from both sides of the argument. I was hoping to show that both sides were equally at fault for letting the debate get out of control. If you look at the results so far it seems to support what I suspected.

And it will only reignite the argument if we let it. So don't let it!
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Chris Schenck
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Instigator!
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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xlhrider wrote:
So I started wondering what happened?


It's obvious. Some people simply refused to accept the obvious truth that Small World is (is not) a wargame.
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Adam Brant
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Poll: Just as bad as the first One
A Poll about the Poll
1. Who thinks the questions asked by the OP's Poll will result in a thread that is just as long if not longer than the thread with the Poll which he refers to?
I do. He asked if Small World was a war game! Again!
I don't. Everything that can be said has been said in the original thread.
2. Who cares one way or the other?
I do damnit! I'm OCD and everything must be in it's rightful place!
I sure as hell don't! I'm the kinda person who piles everything I have in the center of the room so I know where to find it.
      32 answers
Poll created by GamerAtom
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Murray Grelis
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The biggest farce is how some people react to discussions like this. I think it is a subject worthy of discussion, I do not think it is worthy of the animosity and ill feeling displayed. Once an argument reaches such a level of unpleasantness it overshadows any reasonable points made. The whole argument becomes a waste of time and energy.
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Darren Copple
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In the end its all moot. In a hundred years no one will give 2 poops about The Golden Geek nominating Small World as a war game. A civil discussion about what constitutes a wargame is perfectly fine on a board gaming site, but the animosity, name calling, and malicious posts are just silly.
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Hunga Dunga
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bob_the_goon wrote:
Small World, along with all the other nominees are just games

They're not just games. They're an INVESTMENT.
 
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Jonathan Morton
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Quote:
What affect does Small Worlds nomination as a wargame have on the Golden Geek Award?

It harms the creditability of the awards.


This. I am not a wargamer and have no desire to be a wargamer. But to give the award to Small World would be as ridiculous as giving it to some game published 12 years ago.

Oh wait. We did that last year.
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Mark Buetow
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I don't know, but I hope we can hammer out 20 pages of posts explaining the 19 in the other thread!
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Eric Jome
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The awards have no meaning.

The differences are irreconcilable and irrelevant.

The entire affair is much ado about nothing.

When you've been here long enough, you'll see this as the tempest in a teapot that it really is... it's nothing compared to wars fought over ameritrash or bannings or game rankings or shilling or... and all of those were useless ranting too.

Want a tip? Here it is; read these things when they come along, but don't participate. Study what is said. Understand what all sides mean and want.

Understanding is the only good that can come of any of it.
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Oh my God They Banned Kenny
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cosine wrote:
...Understanding is the only good that can come of any of it.


Not sure I understand what you're trying to say here, but I disagree with it.
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Russ Williams
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"What is your feelings about the recent thread about removing the game Small World from the wargame catagory of the Golden Geek Awards?"

I answered "Other, please explain" since for me that one needed to be check boxes (to pick them all) instead of radio buttons (to pick only one)...
 
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