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Subject: Any games with 5-sided spaces filling a map/board? rss

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Daniel Danzer
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I am thinking for quite some time about the possibilities for a grid NOT using triangles, squares or hexes and came up with these five-sided spaces (all of the same kind), which are adjacent (at least with a half of a side) to different numbers of neighbouring spaces, thus offering between 2 and 7 ways for "pawns" to reach the next space.



Anybody knowing a game using something like this yet?

Any thematic ideas? Of course, this grid can be done infintely - or smaller.

Anybody who wants to "steal" this?

Edited for clarifying.
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I like it, I'm not sure what I'd use it for yet, but very cool nonetheless.
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Paul DeStefano
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Chaos Tiles are 5 sided, but not a board.
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Notre Dame?

(just a guess)

-DK
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Daniel Danzer
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Geosphere wrote:
Chaos Tiles are 5 sided, but not a board.


Hey, I own that! But it is using two different shapes ...



My first two ideas (last year) were:

1. "Golden Spike" - lay the whole thing "flat and try to build tracks along the lines and connect the two shorter sides of the board, as the train barons did in the mid-19th century. Scoring for this fast two-player game was dependent, if you need the opponent`s tracks for the connection or not, build cities, etc.
Nice, but somehow repetitive and - boring.

2. Tile-laying on an "open grid" with these forms. The tiles had different inside shapes combined of "land" and "sea". Two Players had to place tiles they took from a common pool and had to fit in/add correctly (a bit like Sunda to Sahul ), so at the end of the game a kind of island appeared - the different number of adjacent tiles made up the different scoring.
Again - boring. zombie

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Daniel Danzer
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DKahnt wrote:


Well, Notre Dame uses a single 5-sided tile in the middle together with some very cleverly designed tiles forming different surroundings for a different numbers of players. The 5-sided tile is only used for a 5-player game ...
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Matt Robertson
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That is very interesting Daniel. Thanks for posting. That could work some magic with various abstract games.
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Christopher Seguin
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Bixby wrote:
That is very interesting Daniel. Thanks for posting. That could work some magic with various abstract games.


Wouldn't a game such as The Gardens of the Alhambra or DaVinci's Challenge be similar to this kind of board. I know that Gardens uses more of a square mechanic, but a 7 sided system would be rather interesting.

I think something like Aquädukt would work, too, although the d20 might not be as useful (but the "canals and houses" would be cool).

I like the idea though - I think there is a lot of potential here.
 
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Erik Oosterwal
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This reminds me a lot of Cairo Tessellation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairo_tessellation), especially seeing the #4 tiles back-to-back in the top and bottom sides of your image.




Cairo tessellation was brought up in an earlier thread called "Why Use Hexes?" (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/82338/page/2). I'm not completely sure how you would implement your pattern in a game. Obviously, if your game uses a board, you could lock in the pattern so that players aren't tempted to line up the diagonal side (side attached to two 45° corners) with one of the regular sides. In an unbounded tile placing game, like Carcassonne, it would be more difficult to prevent the odd tile placement. Also, how do you prevent players from attaching 4-tile octagons directly together and leaving an empty square at the corners? One way to prevent lining up the diagonal side with one of the regular sides would be to 'key' the diagonal (cut that side in an 'S' shape, for instance). This would prevent the first problem; I'm not sure how to prevent the second.

With all that said... ...the routes you show in red make for a very interesting map. I think any transportation game (think trains) that has been done with square, triangular, or hexagonal spaces before could benefit from your pattern. In this case 'benefit' means provide a new and interesting alternative to previous maps. I think it's interesting that with your pattern (assuming it's expanded infinitely), each tile would have either 5 routes or 7 routes depending on which location it's in rather than having a set number number of routes, like you get with the other three shapes mentioned earlier.
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Calling it a diamond shape, consider that the long base side must connect with its match on another tile, whereas the shortest sides connect with other shortest sides or with other top sides in pairs.

Now then, what if these tiles formed rooms or landscapes, where there is a doorway/gateway/pass on every long base side, requiring the player to place them together, but the other sides have more or less gateways. You could have a way for players to build up a board randomly, but forced into the pattern as drawn by the connecting base side.

typos.
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Daniel Danzer
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Yes, I stumbled across these cairo tiles, too.

Thanks for your remarks - I have to think and work on these points ...

As I mentioned, I tried a tile-laying process not totally "free" (without a board), but inside a "grid" and with further parts coloured and forced to fit (like carc / tantrix or Sunda to Sahul) ... But to modify the outline (S-shape) is another elegant idea!
 
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David McCord
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http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/3676
= Pentagons

BUT - I really dig your geometry, man.

I wonder why nobody's utilized Bucky Fuller's map projection for a boardgame. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_map
So much more realistic than the outragiously distorted Mercators.
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Travis Worthington
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At our game design group last week we played 2 games with different board set ups - one with diamonds and another a projection map. Both were very intersting concepts.
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David Molnar
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duchamp wrote:




If some of the tiles have seven neighbors and others have five, I don't see how it matters that they're all the same shape. It's the topology that's important, not the geometry.
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Steven Metzger
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I worked on a game concept with Cairo tiles...not too bad but never really went anywhere.

What you should look at are 5-connection intersections:

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Travis Worthington
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metzgerism wrote:
I worked on a game concept with Cairo tiles...not too bad but never really went anywhere.

What you should look at are 5-connection intersections:



That is very cool. Do you have any app to generate that pattern?
 
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J C Lawrence
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T Worthington wrote:
That is very cool. Do you have any app to generate that pattern?


Yes. A simple L-system will draw such patterns and many others. I played about with L-systems a while back for a logistical game that I'm still fiddling with:

- Inkscape, L-Systems, SVG, Penrose and other tilings
- Shading dark
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Steven Metzger
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T Worthington wrote:
metzgerism wrote:
I worked on a game concept with Cairo tiles...not too bad but never really went anywhere.

What you should look at are 5-connection intersections:



That is very cool. Do you have any app to generate that pattern?
Travis & JC,

I considered altering my hex tiles into Cairos for a bit, then instead using this pattern but with square tiles...the corners of each tile are in the centers of the square sections on the grid.
 
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Michele Nesci
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It looks like it is just the dual of the one posted before.
 
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Steven Metzger
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Rad80 wrote:
It looks like it is just the dual of the one posted before.
They are, but the distance between each of the intersections is identical, and the angles between each line are either 60 or 90 degrees. The picture was found off a Go variant site, so spacing was first priority.
 
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David Molnar
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metzgerism wrote:



Onyx uses this pattern, and it is one of the alternate boards for Abande².
 
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Daniel Danzer
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molnar wrote:
duchamp wrote:




If some of the tiles have seven neighbors and others have five, I don't see how it matters that they're all the same shape. It's the topology that's important, not the geometry.


If you want to create a tile-placing game, it is useful to have tiles of equal shape and size.

If you take it as a grid for a map, you can of course create any topological grid you want.
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Steven Metzger
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duchamp wrote:
molnar wrote:
duchamp wrote:




If some of the tiles have seven neighbors and others have five, I don't see how it matters that they're all the same shape. It's the topology that's important, not the geometry.


If you want to create a tile-placing game, it is useful to have tiles of equal shape and size. ;)
They're all the same shape and size...
 
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Keythedral uses the octagon but you have to place squares between the octs. This version allows more freedom in that every tile is the same, but some tiles placed would give more benefit than others. You could do the whole abstract if it is completely enclosed score for who has their token on it of the majority, think GHENOS.
 
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David Molnar
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duchamp wrote:
molnar wrote:

If some of the tiles have seven neighbors and others have five, I don't see how it matters that they're all the same shape. It's the topology that's important, not the geometry.


If you want to create a tile-placing game, it is useful to have tiles of equal shape and size.

If you take it as a grid for a map, you can of course create any topological grid you want.


ah, yes. That answers my question.
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