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Subject: "Like New" is NOT. . . rss

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Aaron Silverman
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(Feel free to add your own weird experiences to this thread. . .and read the list before posting items for sale/ trade!)

* Punched
* Cards unwrapped and floating free in the box
* Missing just one piece
* Missing dice
* Missing storage bags/ trays
* Broken pieces
* A scuffed-up box
* A box repaired with tape
* A box closed with tape
* The previous owner's initials or name markered inside the box
* Writing on any components/ manuals
* Staining anywhere (even a little bit)
* Mildew (or other) smell
* Extra hairs included

If a game is not EXACTLY in the condition it was supposed to be in when it was brand new, it's "Very Good" at best -- even if when YOU got the game "new" it wasn't perfect!
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Aaron Silverman
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Not all at once! laugh

(I have also been recently noticing a lot of "Like New" listings that qualify that rating in the detail text -- that doesn't make it right.)
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Dom L
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Couldn't you save yourself the trouble by just buying new?
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UA Darth
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I think if you found a dead rat inside it likely is not in "like new" condition.
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Barak Engel
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Punched? scuffed-up box? unwrapped cards?

Sheesh.

If you want new, buy new. If you want a game in excellent condition to play and want to save a bit of money, buy "like new".

DO NOT buy "like new" if all you want is to buy new (for, say, collecting) but pay less than new. Like they say, if it's too good to be true...

(if I am reselling a game that I haven't even taken out of shrink, then I sell it as "new" even if it has been sitting on my shelf for 5 years; nobody seems to find issue with that either)
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Aaron Silverman
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So if a seller misrepresents an item for sale, it's the *buyer's* fault. That's brilliant.

And just to head off this little side-track, I have no problem buying or trading for a game that's not in "like new" condition -- I do it all the time. I just find it annoying when people LIE ABOUT IT.

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Matt Davis
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Most of those I agree with, but I'd say that I would expect "Like New" to mean punched unless I'm told otherwise. Missing/broken pieces, etc., though? Unacceptable.
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DJ Kuul A wrote:
(Feel free to add your own weird experiences to this thread. . .and read the list before posting items for sale/ trade!)

* Punched
I would consider that if the game is in excellent condition, but pieces are punched off the sprues (i.e. played once or twice) that the game is still like new. The other items on the list, I agree with.

But no matter what, the seller should describe the item in detail and the purchaser should read that detail.
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Just to clarify, what do you consider "like new" and "excellent". According to your only def, the top two classes would be "new" and "very good", where the latter appears to be if its unwrapped. Any other problems automatically drop it below very good.

Not that I use these defs, just seeing how you see it.
 
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Dave Peters
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I remember begin slightly annoyed when I bought a copy of Samarkand - still in slightly scuffed years-old shrinkwrap - and discovered that the cards had blown their paper ring bondage and were scattered throughout the box. So while I have no quibbles with the others, the "cards strewn about" is sometimes precisely like new.
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Peter Loop
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Sorry

I have had new in shrink with many of these Conditions

Punched - nevery 100% but I've had up to 50% lose from their frames (but the frames where there)
Missing pieces - this is common, AH D-day had the wrong mix of bits, I've many many call to customer support. (Customer support fixed)
Broken Bits - who didn't on FFG's Starcraft (Customer support fixed)
Scuffed-up box - yup more then once
Closed with tape - Thats how all Blood Feud In New York's were sold (
Name markered inside the box - happen twice, both times it was the designer who sign the game.
Mildew (or other) smell: Duel in the dark anyone (Customer support fixed)

In all these cases they are brand new (i.e. mint).
The key is the intent to deceive.
Mint can never be mint enough for some.

DJ Kuul A wrote:
(Feel free to add your own weird experiences to this thread. . .and read the list before posting items for sale/ trade!)

* Punched
* Cards unwrapped and floating free in the box
* Missing just one piece
* Missing dice
* Missing storage bags/ trays
* Broken pieces
* A scuffed-up box
* A box repaired with tape
* A box closed with tape
* The previous owner's initials or name markered inside the box
* Writing on any components/ manuals
* Staining anywhere (even a little bit)
* Mildew (or other) smell
* Extra hairs included

If a game is not EXACTLY in the condition it was supposed to be in when it was brand new, it's "Very Good" at best -- even if when YOU got the game "new" it wasn't perfect!
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Jonny Lawless
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Oh I so agree with the op on this one. Many people that list games for sale don't look at the guidelines at the bottom:

Quote:
# New - A brand new unused, unopened, and undamaged game in perfect condition. The original packaging and all materials are in brand new condition.
# Like New - Game just removed from shrink wrap. No wear and tear, all facets of the game are intact.
# Very Good - Very minimal wear and tear. All game materials are present. You would give this item to a friend as a gift.
# Good - Minor damage to the box and/or its contents. All game materials are present. Game maybe played once or twice.
# Acceptable - Some damage to the box, but the game is still intact. Possible split corner(s) on the box. Maybe missing a non-crucial game piece. Possibly missing rules/instructions, but are available on the web. Scuffing on the game board.


There are countless games listed as "like new" that are punched, played, etc. It drives me bonkers.

For those of you that are saying "just buy new" keep in mind that not all of the games on everyone's wishlist are in print and available new.
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Hawkeye
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The punched/unpunched issue is vague and should probably be clarified.

And what is more "Like New," an unpunched game with a torn box cover or a punched game with intact box corners?


Board Game Geek Condition Policy

* New - A brand new unused, unopened, and undamaged game in perfect condition. The original packaging and all materials are in brand new condition.
* Like New - Game just removed from shrink wrap. No wear and tear, all facets of the game are intact.
* Very Good - Very minimal wear and tear. All game materials are present. You would give this item to a friend as a gift.
* Good - Minor damage to the box and/or its contents. All game materials are present. Game maybe played once or twice.
* Acceptable - Some damage to the box, but the game is still intact. Possible split corner(s) on the box. Maybe missing a non-crucial game piece. Possibly missing rules/instructions, but are available on the web. Scuffing on the game board.
* Unacceptable - Major damage to box and its parts. Possibly missing several important pieces. Broken or missing board/box. No rules/instructions, and they are not readily avaiable. Do not sell this game on Board Game Geek.
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Aaron Silverman
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rynelf wrote:
I remember begin slightly annoyed when I bought a copy of Samarkand - still in slightly scuffed years-old shrinkwrap - and discovered that the cards had blown their paper ring bondage and were scattered throughout the box. So while I have no quibbles with the others, the "cards strewn about" is sometimes precisely like new.


Hey, stuff happens. I've been buying games for over 30 years -- things aren't always perfect. But if I open up a new game and discover that something's wrong with it, I don't consider that license to list the game as "like new" if I later part with it. (Which is why I wrote "the condition it was supposed to be in when it was brand new" in the original post.)

As Jonny and Rory posted, there are specific guidelines for the way items are supposed to be listed here on BGG. I didn't make up those rules.
 
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Robert Stetler
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shadow9d9 wrote:
I think if you found a dead rat inside it likely is not in "like new" condition.


The rat was like new when it was shipped. Should have paid for priority shipping, it would have arrived in better condition.
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Aaron Silverman
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darthhugo wrote:
Just to clarify, what do you consider "like new" and "excellent". According to your only def, the top two classes would be "new" and "very good", where the latter appears to be if its unwrapped. Any other problems automatically drop it below very good.

Not that I use these defs, just seeing how you see it.


I am using BGG's official definition:

Quote:
Like New - Game just removed from shrink wrap. No wear and tear, all facets of the game are intact.
Very Good - Very minimal wear and tear. All game materials are present. You would give this item to a friend as a gift.

 
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Aaron Silverman
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rynelf wrote:
I remember begin slightly annoyed when I bought a copy of Samarkand - still in slightly scuffed years-old shrinkwrap - and discovered that the cards had blown their paper ring bondage and were scattered throughout the box. So while I have no quibbles with the others, the "cards strewn about" is sometimes precisely like new.


I have purchased brand-new games that sometimes have the cards separated and strewn about -- and sometimes that results in card damage. If the publisher's still around, then I can get replacements. If it's an OOP game that I bought from someone on the Marketplace, it might be a different story. (And no, I wouldn't have a problem with someone who sold a game still in its original shrinkwrap as "new" even if it was old.)
 
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Aaron Silverman
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Misterhawk wrote:
And what is more "Like New," an unpunched game with a torn box cover or a punched game with intact box corners?


Neither. "Like New" is "Like New." I wouldn't list either of those any higher than "Very Good."
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Scott Nelson
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So now, I'll play devil's advocate. Like New?

..if out of shrink wrap and there are no pieces to punch, all wooden pieces or plastic pawns,
played a gazillion times, but with such care that you never see any damage, to top that off, they downloaded the rules so they never had to open the rules book?
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James Boardgame
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As with many others, I think a game can be punched and "like new", but for the most part the stated guidlines are clear enough, and like new ought to be damn close to perfect. This isn't an issue like rating of games where subjectivity is ok, grading the condition of a game for sale Sight unseen has to be done to a common standard.

Yes, it's ironic that a new game still in shrink could have all kinds of damage, but that's another issue. If you're listing a used game for sale you're being fraudulent if you use the wrong grading.

I recently listed a copy of Magic Realm for sale, which really was, in my judgement, in pretty splendid condition - but was nevertheless used, some pieces had signs of wear, and the box lid had torn corners. BGG guidlines are unequivocal, the game was listed as "Acceptable".

Now, for myself I could care less about box damage (ditto scotch tape : so what), but the buyer has the right to know and make that decision themselves. I am going to lose some potential customer who only wants to buy mint, but at least I'm not ripping somebody off.
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J.L. Robert
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rocketkiwi wrote:
Couldn't you save yourself the trouble by just buying new?


Can you find me a copy of SPI's Four Battles in North Africa in new condition?
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Dom L
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No, but I doubt I could find you one in "like new" condition either. The game's over 30 years old.
 
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I think they should change "very good" to "excellent". For many collectibles, "very good" = "very bad". There's a big drop off from "like new" to "very good".
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Todd Pytel
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I'm totally with the OP on this one. While your personal opinion on the meaning of "Like New" may be different, the BGG guidelines are perfectly clear. It's a new game without the shrink. Period. If you list a punched game as Like New, it makes me less likely to purchase it, because then I don't trust you.
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Paul Sauberer
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What gets me are the "like new" listings where it says the game has been played.

I have sold a lot of games and if a game has been played, then according to the BGG guidelines the absolute best it can be is "Very Good." The only exception I could see would be a game where the components do not have to be punched or taken out of packaging and there is no functional distinction between that and if the shrink wrap being removed is the only thing that had been done.

I also agree that there should be a categury between "Like New" and "Very Good" that encompasses the games that have been punched but show no other signs of wear.
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