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Subject: Win without money? OR how do you counter Thief (without reaction cards)? rss

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Vince Lupo
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Let's assume for a moment that you have no coin cards and no way to buy coin cards. How do you play? What kind of cards would you need in order to get things and make progress?

I thought of this concept whilst playing a game with the Thief card and no reaction cards. I was getting rich early on but then got it all stolen. So I believe, the only and best counter is to 1) not buy coin cards(or at least not silver or gold and 2) to get cards that help you deal with no coin cards.

So, the question is, can you play the game and not buy/use money? Let's suppose you trash all your coins early on and focus on the action cards you bought just before that. Can you progress?

I've generated a list of cars I think would help somewhat. They focus on providing you actions and on action card coinage. Also, some are about removing cards from your deck so they can't even steal the money you had because you trashed it. :P

Chancellor
Chapel
Feast
Festival
Laboratory
Market
Remodel
Thief
Village
Woodcutter
Steward
Bridge - no brainer. everything is cheaper and you get coinage on card
Conspirator
Ironworks
Mining Village
Minion
Tribute
Black Market
Mine - interesting because you can use that money that turn, which means you can at least use a coin card before it gets stolen. otherwise not that useful if you're trying to avoid coins altogether
 
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Alan Goodrich
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I'd say no, you can't progress without money. But the scenario you lay out seems very unlikely, almost impossible to enact. If I run out of money completely due to the thief, I'll take coppers. Then I'll start buying thieves - the best defense against thieves in absence of a moat is more thieves.
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Vince Lupo
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cayluster wrote:
I'd say no, you can't progress without money. But the scenario you lay out seems very unlikely, almost impossible to enact. If I run out of money completely due to the thief, I'll take coppers. Then I'll start buying thieves - the best defense against thieves in absence of a moat is more thieves.


Maybe if you get your thief just as early as they do. It is quite wonderful when they don't get to steal anything.
 
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Ian Kelly
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Neo42 wrote:
So, the question is, can you play the game and not buy/use money? Let's suppose you trash all your coins early on and focus on the action cards you bought just before that. Can you progress?


Yes, winning without Treasure has been known to happen.

I disagree about Chapel. If you're following this strategy from the beginning, then the only Treasure you have to trash are your initial Coppers. I say let them steal those -- they're doing you a favor.

Laboratory is a good all-around card, but I don't think it's any stronger than usual in this scenario.

Village is a bit weak, and it doesn't directly help you get coins. Unless it's the only +2 Actions card on the board, skip it.

Bridge is not a no-brainer. The thing to beware of is that it's only worthwhile if you can consistently make use of the +1 Buy. If you play Bridge and then only buy one card, then you just played a fancy, over-priced Silver.

Tribute is only worthwhile if the player to your left is playing Thief and actually has a fair number of Treasure cards.

Black Market is basically a bad Woodcutter. It can be useful if you need to fill a gap that isn't present on the board. Otherwise, skip it.

Mine is just helping your opponents who are playing Thief. And if you're playing a low-treasure deck, then you have a good chance of drawing Mine in a hand with no Treasure. Skip it.
 
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Ian Kelly
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Also, let me add Throne Room to your list. In a very action-heavy deck, Throne Room is pure win.
 
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Sheamus Parkes
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Just as an aside:

Generally a opponent's thief will remove copper from your deck.

This is a very good thing.


Occasionally a thief will eat your first gold. That's bad. But it doesn't often outweigh the good.
 
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B C Z
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People have demonstrated actual games where little to no money was their focus:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/449661

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/447063

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Marshall Miller
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When the thief is in play, I often push for a silver and action heavy deck and don't bother with gold. That said, usually there are better cards than the thief in play and the thief doesn't get purchased enough to bother countering.
 
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Vince Herman
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The most fun I had defending against early thief purchases was to Chapel down to this deck:
Chapel
2xThrone Room
2xSwindler

It is hard for any deck to stand up to 4 Swindlers per turn. And after their decks have been turned to mush, buy a Province. Then, every few turns, you will get 2 Throne Room and 2 Swindlers and can buy another Province.
 
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Aphicha Phawapaphawin
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Throne Room + Workshop + Garden
and then buy the Estate!!! OWN!:devil:
 
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Ted Vessenes
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The easiest way is to reduce the money ratio in your deck by fattening it up with victory point cards. A typical Garden strategy works well. Of course, you could also build a deck that's very action heavy. Multiple festivals, labs, and perhaps just one or two gold. Their chances of hitting it are low.

I mean, think about it. They play a card which hurts you when you have money in your deck. Reduce their odds of finding that money. Seems pretty obvious.
 
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