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Subject: "Send a person to sickbay" rss

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Chris Chan
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Is sending a person to sickbay from the brig allowed? We had a crisis card that would send someone to sickbay, and the humans used it to transfer their ally from the brig into the sickbay after I put him there with my reveal :<

Also, although this is mostly a bad idea, can you send Helo to sickbay if the crisis card that Helo draws on his first turn has an option to send him to sickbay?
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Wim D
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You can select a person in the brig to be the target of "send a player to sickbay" but that player would not be moved. It would just prevent someone else to go to sickbay.

The negative ability of Helo means: he cannot move, be moved or take actions. So moving him to sickbay is not possible.
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From the official Q&A:

Q: If a character is in the brig, and a card sends him to
sickbay, is he moved from the “Brig?”
A: No. This reflects a change from previous rulings.


The question is, can you choose something that you know isnt possible? We play the way as the above poster suscribe but somehow it feels not right.

A Raptor for example, You can risk a raptor, but not if you have one. That sounds good, but how can you choose some in the brig to go to sickbay when you know that he/she cannot move to the sickbay...Its like doing scouting and choose a raptor that isnt there.

Ah well, Altough I am pretty sure that we play right it doesnt allways feel so.

Greets Aron.
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Chris Chan
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Thanks for the clarification. I looked at the official faq here (march update) http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/41208 and didn't see it and I didn't see anything similar asked on the boards either.

I did argue that it didn't make sense to take a person in the brig to a less secure area like the sickbay, but it was 3 humans to 1 cylon's words on an ambiguous ruling so we stuck with "it didn't say 'except players in the brig' on the card".

On the other hand, it was still a pretty epic reveal because I was Boomer and the past 2 turns I had played cards to fail one skill check, used my OPG to force fail another, and used SP and EMs to make sure the other pilot that was in space got hit by a raider activation. (increasing the raider attack and rerolling that die on misses)
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brian
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Arontje wrote:
The question is, can you choose something that you know isnt possible? We play the way as the above poster suscribe but somehow it feels not right.

A Raptor for example, You can risk a raptor, but not if you have one. That sounds good, but how can you choose some in the brig to go to sickbay when you know that he/she cannot move to the sickbay...Its like doing scouting and choose a raptor that isnt there.

It has also been clarified that you can't target someone who can't move or is already there. So if Player A is in the Brig and you are instructed to move someone to the Brig, you can't select Player A as they are already there. Same with Helo before he is on Galacatica or Cylons.

So it should be the same with this new ruling. If a player in the Brig can't be moved to Sickbay, then the players in the brig cna't be the target of "move a player to sickbay" effects.
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

It has also been clarified that you can't target someone who can't move or is already there. So if Player A is in the Brig and you are instructed to move someone to the Brig, you can't select Player A as they are already there. Same with Helo before he is on Galacatica or Cylons.

So it should be the same with this new ruling. If a player in the Brig can't be moved to Sickbay, then the players in the brig cna't be the target of "move a player to sickbay" effects.


Ok, seems right to me. But how do you cope with the following:

Crisis card:
Option A - Admiral discards 3 cards
Option B - President discards 2 cards

Admiral has no cards in his hands, can you choose option A? It has no effect and from the above description you gave, it seems that this isnt possible. How can you choose option A if you arent able to fullfill the assignment.

Hope you all understand what I am trying to say here.

P.s. maybe I go to deep in all of these things but it keeps me wondering.
 
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Will
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Arontje wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:

It has also been clarified that you can't target someone who can't move or is already there. So if Player A is in the Brig and you are instructed to move someone to the Brig, you can't select Player A as they are already there. Same with Helo before he is on Galacatica or Cylons.

So it should be the same with this new ruling. If a player in the Brig can't be moved to Sickbay, then the players in the brig cna't be the target of "move a player to sickbay" effects.


Ok, seems right to me. But how do you cope with the following:

Crisis card:
Option A - Admiral discards 3 cards
Option B - President discards 2 cards

Admiral has no cards in his hands, can you choose option A? It has no effect and from the above description you gave, it seems that this isnt possible. How can you choose option A if you arent able to fullfill the assignment.

Hope you all understand what I am trying to say here.

P.s. maybe I go to deep in all of these things but it keeps me wondering.


The rules and FAQ clarify that unless stated otherwise you can choose things like that even if you don't cannot do them. I.e. you can choose discard but you don't have the cards to discard.
So the answer to this question is YES, you CAN choose option A.

The sickbay thing is an exception that was recently changed in the FAQ.

mercviper wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. I looked at the official faq here (march update) http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/41208

The best place to find the FAQ is not through links or files on BGG (which is one reason I don't think the FAQ should even be in the files section), but on the FFG page. The reason being is because with every update the link changes, and you can be assured of getting the latest update through FFG.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm...
Latest version there is 8-20-09 (despite thier mistake of calling it 2008, its really from this year 2009, and it has an entire page devoted to the pegasus expansion).
I think since the march update theres been 2 or 3 official BSG FAQ updates.

Page 30 of the rules states:
"Choice Crises: When a player makes a choice on a Crisis
Card, he can always choose the top or bottom section of
the card, regardless of whether he will be able to fulfill the
game text listed (unless the card specifically restricts this)."

Page 2 of the 8-20-09 FAQ states:
"Q: If the a player is required to choose a character to send
to the “Brig” or “Sickbay,” can he choose a character that is
already there?
A: No. He also cannot choose a revealed Cylon player, or
“Helo” before he is on the board (due to his negative ability)"

And as someone quoted before it also states:
"Q: If a character is in the brig, and a card sends him to
sickbay, is he moved from the “Brig?”
A: No. This reflects a change from previous rulings."

I would suggest always having a printout of the latest FAQ when playing BSG
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David Bell
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The difference is what kind of choice you're making. In the case of '[player] chooses' cards, you're not restricted in which choice to take. If every player is in the brig or sickbay, and you get a hypothetical 'current player chooses: Send 1 player to sickbay or Lose 1 morale', then you can still choose the option to send someone to sickbay, which will then fail. But if there IS someone you can send to the sickbay, you have to send someone to the sickbay.

Maybe they could have used different keywords to make the rules more clear. Something like 'Current player chooses: Lose 1 morale or target one person to send to sickbay'. Then choose and target could have their own definitions in the glossary.
 
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Will
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Chipacabra wrote:
If every player is in the brig or sickbay, and you get a hypothetical 'current player chooses: Send 1 player to sickbay or Lose 1 morale', then you can still choose the option to send someone to sickbay, which will then fail. But if there IS someone you can send to the sickbay, you have to send someone to the sickbay.

Actually read the text from the FAQ again, I think its clear you can NOT do this if everyone is in brig or sickbay. Its an exception to the rule that you can normally choose any choice even if it won't have an effect (unless card states otherwise)

Page 2 of FAQ
Quote:
Q: If the a player is required to choose a character to send
to the “Brig” or “Sickbay,” can he choose a character that is
already there?
A: No. He also cannot choose a revealed Cylon player, or
“Helo” before he is on the board (due to his negative ability)


Since you "cannot choose" someone who is already there, if everyone was in brig or sickbay that means you won't be able to make that choice. You'd have to lose the morale (or whatever the other choice is), even if it lost you the game.
 
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H-B-G
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Yargo wrote:
Chipacabra wrote:
If every player is in the brig or sickbay, and you get a hypothetical 'current player chooses: Send 1 player to sickbay or Lose 1 morale', then you can still choose the option to send someone to sickbay, which will then fail. But if there IS someone you can send to the sickbay, you have to send someone to the sickbay.

Actually read the text from the FAQ again, I think its clear you can NOT do this if everyone is in brig or sickbay. Its an exception to the rule that you can normally choose any choice even if it won't have an effect (unless card states otherwise)

Page 2 of FAQ
Quote:
Q: If the a player is required to choose a character to send
to the “Brig” or “Sickbay,” can he choose a character that is
already there?
A: No. He also cannot choose a revealed Cylon player, or
“Helo” before he is on the board (due to his negative ability)


Since you "cannot choose" someone who is already there, if everyone was in brig or sickbay that means you won't be able to make that choice. You'd have to lose the morale (or whatever the other choice is), even if it lost you the game.


No I think you can choose the sickbay option. Having chosen it you have no valid targets to go to sickbay and you cannot fulfil the text, but the card does not specifically rule the choice out, so (according to the rule on page 30), it can still be selected.

I see nothing in the FAQ that contradicts this, the choice referred to in the FAQ page 2 quotation refers to the choice of a target to send to the brig or sickbay and is a different choice to that of which card text to follow in the first place.
 
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Will
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DaveD wrote:

No I think you can choose the sickbay option. Having chosen it you have no valid targets to go to sickbay and you cannot fulfil the text, but the card does not specifically rule the choice out, so (according to the rule on page 30), it can still be selected.

I see nothing in the FAQ that contradicts this, the choice referred to in the FAQ page 2 quotation refers to the choice of a target to send to the brig or sickbay and is a different choice to that of which card text to follow in the first place.


Why would they bother to say that in the FAQ in the first place then? If it was a valid choice to choose someone to which nothing would happen (which is the case if you can choose someone already there to "go" there), then why would they specifically spell out that its forbidden? There'd be no point to saying that question and answer if it was under the rules of p.30

While you are right that it is a differant choice, why would they bother to make the distinction that you would have NO valid targets in that situation? In other situations, such as discarding cards when you don't have any, you generally still have a valid target (there is still a current player, or president, etc). Its just that the target is out of cards so he cannot discard.


Keep in mind that the rules HAVE been overridded by the official FAQ in other situations. Such as the line of succession.
 
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brian
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The point is if you are REQUIRED to make the choice, you must select a viable target.

If you have the CHOICE to do either A or B and B requires you to select a target, then you are within your right to take option B even if you have no viable options. But if you select B and you have viable targets, then the FAQ kicks in and you must select one of those viable options.

Another way to look at it:
If the card is an event card and state "Admiral/President/Current Player Chooses" in that little title bar, then the player reference may always select either option regardless if that option can be fulfilled (except when specifically stated on the card).

If the instructions of the effect indicate you are to choose or target something, then you must be able to perform the action or you can't select that target.

BTW, this is the criteria in understanding how Helo's Moral Compass works.
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
The point is if you are REQUIRED to make the choice, you must select a viable target.

If you have the CHOICE to do either A or B and B requires you to select a target, then you are within your right to take option B even if you have no viable options. But if you select B and you have viable targets, then the FAQ kicks in and you must select one of those viable options.

Another way to look at it:
If the card is an event card and state "Admiral/President/Current Player Chooses" in that little title bar, then the player reference may always select either option regardless if that option can be fulfilled (except when specifically stated on the card).

If the instructions of the effect indicate you are to choose or target something, then you must be able to perform the action or you can't select that target.

BTW, this is the criteria in understanding how Helo's Moral Compass works.


Thank you very much for your information. The coloured text will be the one we will follow from now on. It is very clear with that rule of thumb to never have discussions again I believe (and hope).

Thanks.
 
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Eric Engstrom
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Yea, the "witch hunt" crisis is the only reason this question exists. No other card could ever send a character in the brig to sickbay, except for the cylon reveal card.



Effectively, if you must make a choice, you can make either choice freely. Note that "Build Cylon Detector" specifically mentions that you cannot choose option A if you have no nuke tokens.
 
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Christopher Davis
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bungeeboy wrote:
Yea, the "witch hunt" crisis is the only reason this question exists. No other card could ever send a character in the brig to sickbay, except for the cylon reveal card.

Before the ruling change, we had a situation where one Cylon revealed and moved their partner from the Brig to Sickbay....
 
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