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Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » Rules

Subject: Do Trees in Outdoor Encounters block LOS? rss

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Justin Fitzgerald
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My guess is no but do trees block line of sight?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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It's in the rulebook, page 27:

Descent: Road To Legend rulebook pg. 27 wrote:
Tree
Block Movement? No
Block Line of Sight? Yes

It costs two movement points to enter a tree space. A figure in a
tree space is considered to have the Shadowcloak ability. Large
monsters only need to occupy one tree space to benefit from
this ability.


Just don't forget, the trees printed on the map are trees and block LOS and provide Shadowcloak...

-shnar
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Michael Denman
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Heh. We recently had quite a bit of talk about trees. Sure, they block LOS but they don't help much against blast attacks. If you're directly behind a tree, I can't trace LOS to you but I can trace it to the tree. The blast goes off in all directions from that spot... hitting you right behind the tree. I don't like it but... those seem to be the rules.


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Robert Lavigne
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Trump wrote:
Heh. We recently had quite a bit of talk about trees. Sure, they block LOS but they don't help much against blast attacks. If you're directly behind a tree, I can't trace LOS to you but I can trace it to the tree. The blast goes off in all directions from that spot... hitting you right behind the tree. I don't like it but... those seem to be the rules.


If anything within the tree space gains the Shadowcloak ability, wouldn't it stand to reason that you can only target the tree space for a blast attack if you happen to be standing right next to it?
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Michael Denman
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confi wrote:
Trump wrote:
Heh. We recently had quite a bit of talk about trees. Sure, they block LOS but they don't help much against blast attacks. If you're directly behind a tree, I can't trace LOS to you but I can trace it to the tree. The blast goes off in all directions from that spot... hitting you right behind the tree. I don't like it but... those seem to be the rules.


If anything within the tree space gains the Shadowcloak ability, wouldn't it stand to reason that you can only target the tree space for a blast attack if you happen to be standing right next to it?


Shadowcloak doesn't affect targeting. It only protects the character from taking damage. So if Character A is on the tree space, Character B is behind the tree, and Character C does a blast attack on the tree space, B gets hit and A is unharmed. Yeah, it doesn't make sense to me either, but that's the way it is.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Makes perfect sense. When a model is on a tree space, they've climbed up into the tree. They're high off the ground and so the blast goes off at ground level and they're protected

-shnar
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Daniel
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shnar wrote:
Makes perfect sense. When a model is on a tree space, they've climbed up into the tree. They're high off the ground and so the blast goes off at ground level and they're protected

-shnar


What about fireballs, dragon's breath, etc. blast attacks? Won't the trees burn and even characters with the shadowcloak ability standing on a tree field take damage? Seems logical, but I couldn't find anything in the rules stating that it is also played that way. Though that would make for a nice houserule, hehehe...

Logic and rules often clash.....
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Michael Denman
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shnar wrote:
Makes perfect sense. When a model is on a tree space, they've climbed up into the tree. They're high off the ground and so the blast goes off at ground level and they're protected


So I'm in a tree and all of the branches are suitable protection, but if I'm standing behind the tree the trunk is absolutely useless as blast coverage? No, this is just another part of the game that doesn't make real logical sense, but we just have to try to live with it. Realistically, this situation may never happen in my games anyway, so why get worked up about it?
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Corbon Loughnan
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Trump wrote:
shnar wrote:
Makes perfect sense. When a model is on a tree space, they've climbed up into the tree. They're high off the ground and so the blast goes off at ground level and they're protected ;)


So I'm in a tree and all of the branches are suitable protection, but if I'm standing behind the tree the trunk is absolutely useless as blast coverage? :what:


Yes. Although Shnar's example is just one way his imagination has matched the game rule to reality. IMO it's an unnecessary extravagance, but each to his own.

Quote:
No, this is just another part of the game that doesn't make real logical sense, but we just have to try to live with it. Realistically, this situation may never happen in my games anyway, so why get worked up about it?


Umm, logical sense FAIL!

You are in a field with a single tree and someone is trying to kill you. What do you do? You don't run away from the tree into the open, you dive toward the tree and hunker down behind the trunk.
You do that because it is a much safer place to be.
In other words, for safety, get as close to the tree as possible (in the same space).
 
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Michael Denman
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corbon wrote:
Quote:
No, this is just another part of the game that doesn't make real logical sense, but we just have to try to live with it. Realistically, this situation may never happen in my games anyway, so why get worked up about it?


Umm, logical sense FAIL!

You are in a field with a single tree and someone is trying to kill you. What do you do? You don't run away from the tree into the open, you dive toward the tree and hunker down behind the trunk.
You do that because it is a much safer place to be.
In other words, for safety, get as close to the tree as possible (in the same space).


That's just how you imagine it. I see the same next to the tree as being NEXT to the tree and the same space as the tree as being IN the tree. Logical sense SUCCEED!

Doesn't really matter anyway. If I have a tree between me and a wizard, that tree should shield me from some blast damage.
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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It's a really big tree, the leaves are fireproof/magicproof and keeps you really safe

-shnar
 
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Michael Denman
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shnar wrote:
It's a really big tree, the leaves are fireproof/magicproof and keeps you really safe

-shnar


... and it's partially mobile and will move to the side a bit when fired upon with a blast attack.
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Herc du Preez
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Trees do not protect from blast etc because they wrap around the tree, and everyone knows trees are invincible because they are magical.
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Brian Mosher
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it stands to reason that a melee battle action equipped with an axe of any kind would then reveal any figures within the now CHOPPED THE HELL DOWN tree space. Thus eliminating need to bother with the calculations of Shadowcloak or line of sight.

Deforestation: the bottom line.
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Deforestation is the Overlords grand plot for taking over the world!!! Slowly, over many years, but it'll come!

-shnar
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Daniel
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shnar wrote:
Deforestation is the Overlords grand plot for taking over the world!!! Slowly, over many years, but it'll come!

-shnar


We need a new Overlord card:

Deforestation - Outdoor only. Fiendish Orcs with axes need wood for dire purposes and chop down all trees on the map. Ignore any tree spaces from now on, they do NOT provide shadowcloak anymore. Mwahahaha!


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bmosher23 wrote:
it stands to reason that a melee battle action equipped with an axe of any kind would then reveal any figures within the now CHOPPED THE HELL DOWN tree space. Thus eliminating need to bother with the calculations of Shadowcloak or line of sight.

Deforestation: the bottom line.

I think chopping down a tree would take some time, especially if it's a nice, thick, sturdy tree.
 
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Daniel
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sigmazero13 wrote:
bmosher23 wrote:
it stands to reason that a melee battle action equipped with an axe of any kind would then reveal any figures within the now CHOPPED THE HELL DOWN tree space. Thus eliminating need to bother with the calculations of Shadowcloak or line of sight.

Deforestation: the bottom line.

I think chopping down a tree would take some time, especially if it's a nice, thick, sturdy tree.


Not with a magical weapon!cool
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Bryann Turner
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sigmazero13 wrote:

I think chopping down a tree would take some time, especially if it's a nice, thick, sturdy tree.


Two Words, One Man: Chuck Norris
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Daniel
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btizo wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:

I think chopping down a tree would take some time, especially if it's a nice, thick, sturdy tree.


Two Words, One Man: Chuck Norris


Chop Norris?
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Steve Preston
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Just don't forget, the trees printed on the map are trees and block LOS and provide Shadowcloak...


Does this apply to other types of decor printed on the maps?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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In the past, I would have said a resounding NO. Having printed elements on the maps is a bad idea IMHO. It A) confuses players sometimes who are used to seeing map elements as physical tokens, so easier to distinguish and B) it reduces reusability (those elements are permanantly there). Doom: The Boardgame didn't use printed elements, and neither did the basic Descent. I think it was Alter of Despair that added Corruption tiles as printed elements and they've been adding them since.

So, now in Descent, yes, if it's printed on the map, treat it as an element. RtL has some pits on their maps in a couple tiles. Trees, rubble, etc. Makes setting up rooms even more difficult. Don't just find the right shape, make sure it's the right printed tile too...

-shnar
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Daniel
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That was probably done to cut down the number of tokens (or additional tree, hole, sarcophagus, etc. plastik figures/markers) used in play. Though that would've been much nicer and made a generic board more open to different setups...
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James McMurray
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We decided that printed water was not on the board after our first encounter. It was a bunch of spiders with a map that meant they could go anywhere because there was water blocking the three branches of the path.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Jazzgooner wrote:

Just don't forget, the trees printed on the map are trees and block LOS and provide Shadowcloak...


Does this apply to other types of decor printed on the maps?


Mostly yes. Unfortunately, not 100%, though the 'no's are actually fairly obvious if you look closely.

The Outdoor maps in particular have a lot of stuff printed on them to cut down on tokens.
Trees, Mud, Water and Ice ar all printed on outdoor maps and are clearly intended to be proper 'terrain'. Each such space looks the same as if a token of that type was on the board.
There are also some specialist indoor tiles with printed terrain, including at least 2 4x4 'bridges', with printed terrain down the sides (one lava, one pits IIRC).

It is quite clear that this printed terrain is intended to be treated as 'terrain'. There are, after all, no actual Tree tokens, yet rules for trees. The water and mud on outdoor terrain is most common (though not exclusive) in 'Locations' entitled 'Rushing Stream', 'Swampy Ground' or similar (and often referred to in special rules on the location card). The terrain on the specialist indoor tiles are referred to in the appropriate quest or level notes/cards.

This does sometimes result in awkward encounters - such as spiders or ogres trapped in watery areas where they can't actually move about. Such is life. OTOH, the same locations can be easily blocked up if the OL has 1-space monsters, so you win some, lose some.

There is unfortunately also some printed non-terrain on a few tiles. Mushrooms in one of the 6x6s IIRC, some 'snow' (clearly different from ice, and in fact is often covered by Ice tokens in the RtL level Icy Tunnels) on some of the outdoor boards from ToI. And what looks very similar to mud on most of the 2x2 tiles. However none of this terrain looks quite like it would do if a token was placed on a blank space and clearly should be ignored.
 
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