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Dominion: Seaside» Forums » General

Subject: The first card is revealed: Ambassador rss

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Nevin Steindam
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Rio Grande has posted the first image of a Seaside card. You can see the Ambassador here: http://www.riograndegames.com/news.html?id=20

It appears to be an interesting alternative to trashing cards. According to the text, "Reveal a card from your hand. Return up to 2 copies of it from your hand to the Supply. Then each other player gains a copy of it." (Cost: 3).

First impressions:
* This card doesn't seem to make use of any new rules or terms. I expect that Seaside will introduce new elements, but it makes sense that the first teaser card would be one we can understand.
* The people who were worried about the art are probably going to be disappointed.
* This does not pare down your deck as fast as the standard trashing cards (even the ones that only trash 2 let you choose any cards - this card will only trash 1 unless you have 2 matching cards in your hand), but it weakens everyone else's deck at the same time. I'm guessing that an "Ambassador game" would feel very different than a "Chapel game". When the Ambassador is in play, everyone else will need to get their own Ambassadors or find another response. Chapel games are always very solo.
* I'm not sure how often the Ambassador will be worthwhile. If there is an attack that gives out Curses but no Reactions, then it will become key to the game. But if you are just trying to clog up the other decks with Coppers and Estates, I can't tell how effective it will be.
* Player positions may be very important. What happens if the Curse pile runs out and you keep playing Ambassadors? Only the player to your left can get the Curse that you returned (or the 2 players to your left, if you had 2 in your hand). If this happens repeatedly, then it will be very bad to sit next to the person who uses Ambassador the most effectively.
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Joseph
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Great way to lose coppers!
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Steve Wagner
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Great against witches and torturers.
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That is not Depeche but rather
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I'm curious if a player needs to play a Reaction before or after the returned card is revealed.

Edit for clarity.
 
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David desJardins
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Reactions are played immediately after an Attack card is played, before the active player does any of the things on the card.

See the Minion for an illustration of that.
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David desJardins
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Progmode wrote:
I'm curious if a player needs to play a Reaction before or after the returned card is revealed.


Note also that you don't have to return the revealed card (although you usually will, I would think).
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Dave Kudzma
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SVan wrote:
Great against witches and torturers.


There are cards in this set that I bet are WORSE than both devil
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Reactions are played immediately after an Attack card is played, before the active player does any of the things on the card.

See the Minion for an illustration of that.

Ah, I apparently missed Donald's clarification (http://boardgame.geekdo.com/article/3566761#3566761) and have been playing under an incorrect assumption.

Also, there's this handy little guy at your disposal:




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Drew Spencer
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Progmode wrote:
I'm curious if a player needs to play a Reaction before or after the returned card is revealed.


Note also that you don't have to return the revealed card (although you usually will, I would think).


This leads to an interesting thought... You could play this just to speed up the end of the game by 3 piles or to clog up people's decks with cards that work well as long as you only have one of them. Both situations in which you might choose not to put any cards back in the supply.

It's a neat idea, and it doesn't seem to be one any of the custom card creators on the geek thought of. I'm not sure putting cards back into the supply at all has occurred to anyone. Certainly not to me.
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Jason Woolever
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I'm curious what the effect should be if the owner chooses to reveal a card not available in the Supply, such as one obtained from the Black Market.
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Mason Louie
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banyan wrote:
It's a neat idea, and it doesn't seem to be one any of the custom card creators on the geek thought of. I'm not sure putting cards back into the supply at all has occurred to anyone. Certainly not to me.

theatog cooked up several cards that return cards to the supply, Diamond and Nomadize. Unfortunately, he buried it deep in the dusty catacombs that is the BGG forums.

I modified Nomadize into Forest Fire and play with it regularly. It is one of my group's favorites. My guess from playing Forest Fire is that Ambassador will be pretty fun.

From a first glance, I like the implications of Ambassador; it has both offensive and defensive directions. It might even make buying Curses viable (naaaah!) Plus it allows for some Town Cryer wackiness: play Ambassador, pick Ambassador from your hand and deal out some diplomatic buffoonery.

I would like to point out that the card does indeed affect your next turn albeit in a very obtuse manner. Consider a 2 player game with 2 empty piles, a third with one card left of a marginal but consequential value-- say Estate, and you have 2 cards of the third pile in hand. You play Ambassador, pick Estate, return 2, and deal out one to your opponent. You would gain another turn in the game assuming your opponent can't gain/buy an extra card during his next turn.

Retrogressive effects to the core mechanic, like returning cards back to the supply, do funny things to game flow and thus possibly affect the next turn. This card isn't super powerful (by itself), so there are only strained situations, but the potential is there.

qubits wrote:
I'm curious what the effect should be if the owner chooses to reveal a card not available in the Supply, such as one obtained from the Black Market.

What I do for when this happens with Forest Fire is nothing, as it is the simplest thing to do. Sort of like when you Bureaucrat and your opponent doesn't have a victory card in hand. My guess is Donald will do something similar unless he has an interesting secret Tumbolian dimension of the game he's waiting to unleash in expansion 51.
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Steven Yackel
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qubits wrote:
I'm curious what the effect should be if the owner chooses to reveal a card not available in the Supply, such as one obtained from the Black Market.


"Then each other player gains a copy of it."

I am assuming that other players would simply gain a card of the type you revealed since Ambassador does not say "gain a card from the supply." However, if one of these types of cards that are not in the original 10 runs out, it does NOT count towards the three-pile ending.
 
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Donald X.
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qubits wrote:
I'm curious what the effect should be if the owner chooses to reveal a card not available in the Supply, such as one obtained from the Black Market.

There will eventually be a FAQ for the promos on the RGG site, and it will say:

Quote:
Cards purchased with Black Market do not have corresponding supply piles, and so cannot be returned to their piles. For example if you use Ambassador (from Dominion: Seaside) on a card you got with Black Market, that card will stay in your hand.

Gaining cards always means from the supply, unless otherwise specified. So you fail to return the card, and then the other players fail to gain it.

For other Ambassador questions, its FAQ is:

Quote:
Ambassador - First you choose and reveal a card from your hand. You may place up to 2 copies of that card from your hand back in the Supply. You may choose not to put any of them back in the Supply. Then the other players each gain a copy of it from the Supply. If the pile for the chosen card runs out, some players may not get one; cards are given out in turn order starting with the next player. If you have no other cards in hand when you play this, it does nothing.

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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Do I understand this card correctly? In order to return 2 cards to their stacks, I need to have an Ambassador and 3 copies of this card on hand? Then I play Ambassador, reveal one of these and return both others. If I only had 2 copies, I would've returned only one. The revealed card never gets returned, right?
 
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Jonas Milke
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The revealed card goes back to your hand immediately.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Spielfrosch wrote:
The revealed card goes back to your hand immediately.


Thanks. *bashingoneself* Terminology... "Reveal" doesn't mean "play"...
 
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Mike Tomashewski
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Ooooh... I like the implications of this card in any 3 pile strategy. This could become insanely powerful in a bigger player game to force a fast endgame. You can reveal an action card and give away up to 5 cards!!!!

If you keep good track of VP and have the edge, this could be great.
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Mike Haverty
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It is also "up to 2 copies" so you can do this with any single card in your hand; you don't have to have a pair.
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Matthew Naikelis
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I see the card being most effective in 4+ person games by ending the game quickly. If each time you are handing out 3+ copies of a card, you can empty piles VERY quickly

EDIT: Shewski beat me to it!
 
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Richard Watney
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mattnaik wrote:
I see the card being most effective in 4+ person games by ending the game quickly. If each time you are handing out 3+ copies of a card, you can empty piles VERY quickly

EDIT: Shewski beat me to it!


i see it as a 'screw you! ALL OF YOU!' card, with which you dispense curses, coppers and other useless cards, and secondary to that, a way of getting rid of those useless cards yourself.

i think it represents the analogy 'the best defence is a good offense'.
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Lionel Graveleau
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donaldx wrote:

Quote:
Ambassador - First you choose and reveal a card from your hand. You may place up to 2 copies of that card from your hand back in the Supply. You may choose not to put any of them back in the Supply. Then the other players each gain a copy of it from the Supply. If the pile for the chosen card runs out, some players may not get one; cards are given out in turn order starting with the next player. If you have no other cards in hand when you play this, it does nothing.



If you have no other cards in hand when you play this, it does nothing => What does it mean ? "No other cards" : no other cards copies from the card revealed ? So to use it, we would need in the hand :
- 1 ambassador
- at least 2 similars cards (ex : 2 curses)

Can the revealed card be put too in the supply ?

thanks
 
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David desJardins
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ocelau wrote:
If you have no other cards in hand when you play this, it does nothing => What does it mean ? "No other cards" : no other cards copies from the card revealed ? So to use it, we would need in the hand :
- 1 ambassador
- at least 2 similars cards (ex : 2 curses)


You don't have to have two similar cards.

You play the Ambassador.

You reveal one card from your hand. (Skip this step only if you have no cards in hand at this point.) Then put the revealed card back in your hand.

Then put zero, one, or two copies of the revealed card from your hand into the supply stacks. This could include the card you just revealed (often it will). Since zero is an option, you can skip this step if you want.

Then each other player gains a copy of that revealed card from the supply stacks. You don't skip this step unless you didn't have any card to reveal, or you revealed a card for which the supply stacks are now empty.
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Thomas Franke
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I like the idea of turning a Torturer into a boomerang with this one. whistle

Downside is that probably everyone will see it coming.
 
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ocelau wrote:
If you have no other cards in hand when you play this, it does nothing => What does it mean ?


It means that if Ambassador is the only card in your hand, and you play it, you won't have a card to reveal, so it does nothing. You can successfully play Ambassador if you have only one other card in your hand.
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Dave Kudzma
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SVan wrote:
Great against witches and torturers.


Actually it's better at giving out curses than the witch.
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