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Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage» Forums » General

Subject: Change of a non-active General: unfair to Carthage? rss

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To begin with this may seem like unjustified carping: surely the change of general rules greatly favour Catharge when Rome can end up with a worse general in charge?

While this is largely true, the Romans may occasionally gain an advantage through luck in certain situations, whereas Carthage cannot. This is when a non-active army with two generals is attacked. Even if the Romans have a klutz in charge, the Catharginian must make a change of general roll on Rome's behalf (unless one is a pro-consul). Thus there's a 50% chance that a better general (assuming such is present) could take over.

On the other hand no such latitude is granted to Catharge. Should Carthage have a worse general in charge for some reason (usually because Mago just travelled by sea or Hanno had been using his special ability), they don't have any option to change generals in response to a Roman attack.

Again I grant you that this will only happen if Hasdrubal is present (because Hannibal outranks everyone, and the ranking general always takes charge). Still it is a significant disadvantage having to fight with Mago/Hanno instead of Hasdrubal, with 1 less card and 16% less chance of intercepting, withdrawing or counter-attacking. And the Catharginians are supposed to be the side less hide-bound than the Romans!

Should Carthage perhaps be given the option to change general if attacked?
 
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Russ Williams
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The sea movement rules are also unfair to Carthage - why should they have to roll on a table, possible failing to sail or even sinking, while Rome gets to freely sail whenever they like?

The elephant rules are unfair to Rome - why does Carthage start with elephants, and the chance to get more during play, while Rome has no elephants?

I.e. I think the change of consul rule has to do specifically with Roman politics about consuls, and that's why it's not applicable to all generals in, um, general.

I see no problem with some specific rule seeming to favor one side or the other in a historical simulation where the sides really were different!
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Reinhard Mueller
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cally777 wrote:


Should Carthage perhaps be given the option to change general if attacked?


The rule is not arbitrary, but it is there for historical reasons. If two consules marched together, command changed daily between both. So it would be wrong to apply the rule to the carthargian generals.
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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Note that the seniority rules favor Carthage (you always prefer to have Hannibal in charge) while they usually hurt Rome (your proconsuls are, on average, much better than your consuls.)

So the randomization among Roman consuls doesn't give Rome an advantage.
 
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Andy Latto
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SFRR wrote:
Actually, if a Carthaginian player postions their sea-moving forces properly, as in hopefully two spaces or more away from any potentially attacking Roman army, once the Roman player's turn comes with the inevitable attack, the Carthaginian player may choose which general to intercept with, say Hasdrubal carrying Mago along in your example, and thus with either failure or success, the interception attempt allows Carthage to put Hasdrubal in charge for the defense after being moved by sea by Mago.


This is incorrect, both in terms of what the rules say, and what WGR does. If Mago is in charge, with Hasdubral in the army, and Rome moves adjacent, you may attempt to intercept with Hasdubral, though you must leave at least 1CU behind. If the interception succeeds, you are fighting with Hasdubral. But if it fails, and Rome then continues and moves to the space from which you intercepted, you are given no option; Mago remains in charge. I just checked this on WarGameRoom.

I agree that the fact that this is not ideal for Carthage is balanced by many other Cartaginian advantages, so it is not a problem. But you cannot guarantee that Hasdubral leads the battle if you sail with Mago, unless the Roman Army is more than 4 spaces away (more than 6 spaces if Rome happens to have a Forced March card),
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Scott Randolph
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andylatto wrote:
SFRR wrote:
Actually, if a Carthaginian player postions their sea-moving forces properly, as in hopefully two spaces or more away from any potentially attacking Roman army, once the Roman player's turn comes with the inevitable attack, the Carthaginian player may choose which general to intercept with, say Hasdrubal carrying Mago along in your example, and thus with either failure or success, the interception attempt allows Carthage to put Hasdrubal in charge for the defense after being moved by sea by Mago.


This is incorrect, both in terms of what the rules say, and what WGR does. If Mago is in charge, with Hasdubral in the army, and Rome moves adjacent, you may attempt to intercept with Hasdubral, though you must leave at least 1CU behind. If the interception succeeds, you are fighting with Hasdubral. But if it fails, and Rome then continues and moves to the space from which you intercepted, you are given no option; Mago remains in charge. I just checked this on WarGameRoom.

I agree that the fact that this is not ideal for Carthage is balanced by many other Cartaginian advantages, so it is not a problem. But you cannot guarantee that Hasdubral leads the battle if you sail with Mago, unless the Roman Army is more than 4 spaces away (more than 6 spaces if Rome happens to have a Forced March card),


Yes, Andy, you are correct. I deleted my response. See you on WGR.
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