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Subject: Definitions of Player, Team, Member and Character rss

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John O'Haver
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Just got this and tried to play solo last night. I found myself befuddled by seemingly overlapping uses of the the words Player, Team, Member and Character.

I thought the "Team" was the sum total of all the players and each "Player" was a "Member of the cooperative Team." And each Player/Team Member had 3 Character cards that represented three separate individuals who were controlled by that Player/ Team Member.

I read one of the posts about Sliding Walls and learned that Sliding Walls cannot separate the three Character cards controlled by one "Player."

So then I began to think that the Character cards represent characteristics, attributes or skills and the sum of those three cards represent one individual controlled by the "Player/Team Member."


Then in the combat example, it says something like, "Your team of three characters is fighting the Gargantuan Reanimated Cyborg Ape (CV6).Your combat rolls (after modifications from Items, Character cards, and others are"... and so on, using the words, Team, Team Members, members, character cards and player


I think I know what you mean but please define Team, Player, Team Member and Character.



 
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T France
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scribidinus wrote:
So then I began to think that the Character cards represent characteristics, attributes or skills and the sum of those three cards represent one individual controlled by the "Player/Team Member."


This is the correct interpretation. So in a solo game you are a one (wo)man team, member of the team, player and character...
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Jonathan Leistiko
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Before I start, I just want to agree that these terms can be confusing. Now, on to your question(s):

scribidinus wrote:
Just got this and tried to play solo last night. I found myself befuddled by seemingly overlapping uses of the the words Player, Team, Member and Character.

I thought the "Team" was the sum total of all the players and each "Player" was a "Member of the cooperative Team." And each Player/Team Member had 3 Character cards that represented three separate individuals who were controlled by that Player/ Team Member.

I read one of the posts about Sliding Walls and learned that Sliding Walls cannot separate the three Character cards controlled by one "Player."

So then I began to think that the Character cards represent characteristics, attributes or skills and the sum of those three cards represent one individual controlled by the "Player/Team Member."

That's correct. Each player controls one character, represented at the start of the game by three character cards.

scribidinus wrote:
Then in the combat example, it says something like, "Your team of three characters is fighting the Gargantuan Reanimated Cyborg Ape (CV6). Your combat rolls (after modifications from Items, Character cards, and others are"... and so on, using the words, Team, Team Members, members, character cards and player.

I think I know what you mean but please define Team, Player, Team Member and Character.

Let's pull that combat example out verbatim and define terms as they appear:

Quote:
Your team of three characters is fighting the Gargantuan Reanimated Cyborg Ape (CV 6).

Team: A group of characters exploring the island together. This almost always consists of all characters in play. The Sliding wall can split the team into two teams, with some characters on one team, and some characters on a second team. Also note that the Scout acts as a team of one with a speed of one when scouting.

Quote:
Your combat rolls (after modifications from Items, Character cards, and others) are 7, 5, and 3. The Ape suffers one Hit and can suffer two more (because there are three team members).

Team Member: A character on a team is a member of that team, or a team member. A team with three characters on it has three team members.

Quote:
The team must allocate two points of damage among its members. Two team members can suffer one Hit each, or one character could suffer two Hits.

The last sentence should have read, "Two team members can suffer one Hit each, or one team member could suffer two Hits." As it reads, one could misinterpret it and attempt to assign two points of damage to a character who is not on the team. Obviously, this is not the intended interpretation, but one could try to interpret the rules this way.

Quote:
Agreeing that two members will suffer the damage, two Character cards are flipped face down with their Charges still attached.

This is a little imprecise. Let's try: "Agreeing that two members will suffer the damage, two players each flip one Character card face down with their Charges still attached." That's a bit better. Two players, each controlling one character on the team, agree to take one point of damage each. Consequently, they each flip one of their character's character cards face down.

Summary
=======

Player: If you're playing The Isle of Doctor Necreaux, you're a player.

Character: Typically, you start the game with three face-up character cards. These three character cards describe three aspects of the person you pretend to be during the game. This person is your character. For example, you could be a Lucky Stone Cold Killer with Deja Vu.

Team: One or more characters who are exploring the island together. At the start of each turn, the characters' players decide - as a group - if they are resting or exploring. If exploring, they decide as a group what their speed is. Sliding Wall traps can split a team into two teams or reunite two split teams into one whole team again.

Team Member: A character who belongs to a given team is a member of that team, or a team member. The number of team members determines how many hits it takes to defeat monsters the team encounters. When a team takes damage in combat, the team typically gets to choose who will take the damage.

I hope this was helpful. If it's still not clear, please let me know.

Thanks for asking!
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My Turn Yet?
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John: Thanks for the (rather lengthy) explaination. I too found myself quite confused over the differences in terms, especially the player/character differences. It probably would have been better to drop the "character" wording and just used player instead.

Great game, though. Bought it last night, played 3 times, lost all three, but learned a lot.

As a side note, I realized up after the second game that a speed of 4 or 5 is never going to cut it. Just some quick math shows me that 110/12 minutes means I have to average around a speed of 9 as a single player. This seems pretty steep for a turn, but maybe I just need to get used to it...

Thanks again for a great game.
 
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Jonathan Leistiko
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paigew wrote:
John: Thanks for the (rather lengthy) explanation. I too found myself quite confused over the differences in terms, especially the player/character differences. It probably would have been better to drop the "character" wording and just used player instead.

Yeah, I can see that.

paigew wrote:
Great game, though. Bought it last night, played 3 times, lost all three, but learned a lot.

The diabolical doctor's isle is full of hazards and traps. It can be difficult to navigate at first, but as you become more familiar with it, I suspect you'll find clever ways to turn some of his fiendish schemes against him and emerge triumphant. I wish you the best of luck in your future attempts.

paigew wrote:
As a side note, I realized up after the second game that a speed of 4 or 5 is never going to cut it. Just some quick math shows me that 110/12 minutes means I have to average around a speed of 9 as a single player. This seems pretty steep for a turn, but maybe I just need to get used to it...

I recommend checking out my comments on speed and speed selection strategy in response to "Speed and Traps" at http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/450322

The short version: The deck has 77 cards, and you only have to go through all of them if the Escape Shuttle is on the bottom. It's not quite as impossible as it seems at first. I do not recommend starting with a speed of 9 on your first turn. That's pretty likely to cause serious damage to almost any team. Starting with slow speeds (4 or 5) and ramping up to very high speeds (10 or more) once you're more powerful tends to work pretty well.

paigew wrote:
Thanks again for a great game.

You're welcome. Thanks for taking the time to play it and comment on it.
 
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J
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My head is still spinning from these definitions...let me see if I’ve got this right.
human player = team member = single character = multiple character cards

Let’s take this example from the rules:
Quote:
Your team of three characters is fighting the Gargantuan Reanimated Cyborg Ape (CV 6). Your combat rolls (after modifications from Items, Character cards, and others) are 7, 5, and 3. The Ape suffers one Hit and can suffer two more (because there are three team members). The team must allocate two points of damage among its members. Two team members can suffer one Hit each, or one character could suffer two Hits. Agreeing that two members will suffer the damage, two Character cards are flipped face down with their Charges still attached.


So, to paraphrase:
Quote:
Your team of three humans players is fighting a monster that needs three rolls (one per human) to be greater than its combat value (6). The players roll, 7, 5 and 3 respectively after modifications. The monster suffers a single hit, leaving the team to decide how the two hits that resulted from the failures should be allocated. The people who failed nobly decide to take one hit each, and turn over one of their character cards to signify this damage. This leaves them with two character cards face up each, and one face down each. Presuming that all three people started with three character cards each (9), we should now have 3, 2, 2 for a total of 7 character cards face up on the table.


If that’s correct then why not just call the character cards characteristics? A character is a complete individual, while many characteristics may be possessed by a single individual.

Some clarification is needed here:
1. Can the player who rolled the success take the hit?
2. Does everyone re-roll in the next combat round?
3. If so, and two successes are rolled, do they take effect before the monster attacks again?
 
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wellspokenman wrote:
Some clarification is needed here:
1. Can the player who rolled the success take the hit?
2. Does everyone re-roll in the next combat round?
3. If so, and two successes are rolled, do they take effect before the monster attacks again?


1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Simultaneous...
 
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J
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So we get hit even though we've scored the required 3 successes? Or are the successes not cumulative?
 
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Jonathan Leistiko
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wellspokenman wrote:
So we get hit even though we've scored the required 3 successes?

You are correct.

wellspokenman wrote:
Or are the successes not cumulative?

Successes are cumulative, but everything resolves simultaneously. You kill the Monster with your accumulated successes but in the attack, someone left the Monster an opening to get a dying blow in.
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Jonathan Leistiko
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wellspokenman wrote:
My head is still spinning from these definitions...

I don't blame you. It's a little tricky.

wellspokenman wrote:
let me see if I’ve got this right.

Okay.

wellspokenman wrote:
human player = team member = single character = multiple character cards

Completely correct.

(Example deleted for brevity.)

wellspokenman wrote:
If that’s correct then why not just call the character cards characteristics? A character is a complete individual, while many characteristics may be possessed by a single individual.

That's a good and valid point. I'll be sure to raise it if future printings occur.

I know the following questions have been answered correctly already, but I'd like to add my two cents...

wellspokenman wrote:
Some clarification is needed here:
1. Can the player who rolled the success take the hit?

Absolutely. I think damage allocation in combat is one of the most important collaborative / co-op aspects of Doctor Necreaux.

wellspokenman wrote:
2. Does everyone re-roll in the next combat round?

Absolutely. You sink or swim as a team.

wellspokenman wrote:
3. If so, and two successes are rolled, do they take effect before the monster attacks again?

Events resolve simultaneously whenever possible in Doctor Necreaux. When you roll for combat, all rolls are (mechanically) simultaneous. When you look at a roll, you compare it to the Monster's CV. That tells you if you hit it, if it hits you, or if nothing happens. Since all rolls resolve simultaneously, all hits on the monster and on the team resolve at the same time.

I genuinely appreciate your questions and pursuit for clarity. Thank you!
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J
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Wonderful - all is now clear. Thanks very much for such prompt and helpful responses - I think we'll enjoy our next game a lot more

Jess
 
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Jonathan Leistiko
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Faboo! Glad to hear it.
 
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