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Formula D» Forums » Rules

Subject: really dumb question about "cross" the finish line rss

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Donald Walsh
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I have only played the game once on the Monaco track.

What is the definition of "cross" the finish line. I can read the rules just fine, but the rules of racing I know require the nose of the car to reach the finish line only.

That being said, the finish line graphic on the Monaco track goes through 2 spaces (inner and outer lanes) and between 2 spaces in the center lane.

So what qualifies as having "crossed" the finish line. In the inner and outer lanes, the space with the graphic, or the space beyond?

For the center lane, the space "before" the line, where in theory the car's nose is at the line, or the space beyond?

I'm very surprised at such an ambiguity in what should be a pretty simple concept, but maybe it's me...

Thanks.
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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I've always played that the car has to hit the finish line. In the scenario you mentioned, the center lane goes up to the finish line but doesn't touch it so that car hasn't finished yet.
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Stig Morten
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Second that.Outer and inner lane it is enough to land on the spaces that is straddled by the finish line, while the middle lane has to pass it. The nose hass to cross the finish line.
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Jeroen Harkes
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IMHO the car has to completely pass the finish line. So touching it won't do.

This has never been an issue in my games winners usually pass far beyond the finish line
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Bart de Groot
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It is quite simple. Crossing is intersecting. As soon as any part of the car intersects with the finish line it is intersecting that line. The space(s) that is just in front of the finish line do not intersect it. The space that is half over intersects the finish line.
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Stephen Smith
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I don't know if they changed the rules for this edition, but in Formula De, the rules explicitly state that spaces straddling the finish line do not count as completely crossing the line.
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Bart de Groot
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seppo21 wrote:
I don't know if they changed the rules for this edition, but in Formula De, the rules explicitly state that spaces straddling the finish line do not count as completely crossing the line.

I took out the rules to see.

Formula D rules talk once of passing, and several times of crossing the finish line. It does not mention straddling spaces as far as I can see.

The Formula Dé rules state "to cross the finishing line." Again no mention of straddling spaces.

The master rules don't use crossing, they use passing, and specifically mention "as soon as any part of the car is beyond the finish line" (emphasis mine). Again no mention of straddling spaces.

I got out the original french Formule Dé rules (the very first Ludodélire version), it states: "ARRIVEE - Le pilote qui, à son tour de jeu, franchit le premier la ligne d'arrivée est le vainqueur du Grand Prix."
Franchit la ligne d'arrivée => crossing the finish line. No mention of straddling spaces.
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Donald Walsh
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Thanks, everyone. That's all I really needed to hear. How a game can be so unclear and ambiguous about the victory condition is beyond me. Especially since the condition does not correlate with actual racing victory conditions in the first place.
 
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Stephen Smith
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bdegroot wrote:
seppo21 wrote:
I don't know if they changed the rules for this edition, but in Formula De, the rules explicitly state that spaces straddling the finish line do not count as completely crossing the line.

I took out the rules to see.

Formula D rules talk once of passing, and several times of crossing the finish line. It does not mention straddling spaces as far as I can see.

The Formula Dé rules state "to cross the finishing line." Again no mention of straddling spaces.

The master rules don't use crossing, they use passing, and specifically mention "as soon as any part of the car is beyond the finish line" (emphasis mine). Again no mention of straddling spaces.

I got out the original french Formule Dé rules (the very first Ludodélire version), it states: "ARRIVEE - Le pilote qui, à son tour de jeu, franchit le premier la ligne d'arrivée est le vainqueur du Grand Prix."
Franchit la ligne d'arrivée => crossing the finish line. No mention of straddling spaces.

I guess I should state that the rules included in my copy of Formula De explicitly state that. I'm sure my copy is not unique in that manner.
 
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Bart de Groot
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seppo21 wrote:
I guess I should state that the rules included in my copy of Formula De explicitly state that. I'm sure my copy is not unique in that manner.

Perhaps not. Could you maybe scan or photograph the section of your manual where it explicitly states this? Or perhaps the whole manual? So we can read it and see what to make of it in relation to the other rules.
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Mark Robinson
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Sorry my phone is broken so I cannot take any pictures of my rulebook (how 21st century is that? A broken phone prevents me from taking photos!).

However, I concur with Stephen:-

My FD game is the EUROGAMES Descartes editeur English version. In the first paragraph "AIM OF THE GAME" it states that the goal "is to win a race by being the first to cross the finish line.

OK that seems quite ambiguous. However the final section of the rules "FINISHING THE RACE" states:-

"The winner of the race is the first driver to completely cross the finish line. Landing on a space that straddles the line does not count as finishing. (my emphasis) The race ends when all drivers still in the race have crossed the line."

Diff.
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Mike Gillman
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I seem to be the only one here to think this, but I've always played it as the car only has to touch the line. So a car that enters any square that contains part of the finish line is declared to have crossed it.

Rather than try to interpret the rules at all, I simply applied the model of pretty much all racing, even athletics, where it is the first to break the plane of the finishing line, like in athletics, horse racing, dog racing and any other racing I have heard of.
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Martin Godolakis
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MrMorraine wrote:
I seem to be the only one here to think this, but I've always played it as the car only has to touch the line. So a car that enters any square that contains part of the finish line is declared to have crossed it.

Rather than try to interpret the rules at all, I simply applied the model of pretty much all racing, even athletics, where it is the first to break the plane of the finishing line, like in athletics, horse racing, dog racing and any other racing I have heard of.


well put. this is the way i/we play too.
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Doug File
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We've only played a few times, but this is the way we played it too.

I guess it doesn't really matter as long as everyone agrees how to rule it before the race starts.
 
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Bart de Groot
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MrMorraine wrote:
I seem to be the only one here to think this, but I've always played it as the car only has to touch the line. So a car that enters any square that contains part of the finish line is declared to have crossed it.

Rather than try to interpret the rules at all, I simply applied the model of pretty much all racing, even athletics, where it is the first to break the plane of the finishing line, like in athletics, horse racing, dog racing and any other racing I have heard of.


Exactly, you have to break the line. Not just stand in front of it. Games with spaces abstract continuous space. Now you're in front. Now you're beyond. When did you go past the line and "break the plane"? When you moved from the space in front of the line to the space behind the line.
 
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bdegroot wrote:
MrMorraine wrote:
I seem to be the only one here to think this, but I've always played it as the car only has to touch the line. So a car that enters any square that contains part of the finish line is declared to have crossed it.

Rather than try to interpret the rules at all, I simply applied the model of pretty much all racing, even athletics, where it is the first to break the plane of the finishing line, like in athletics, horse racing, dog racing and any other racing I have heard of.


Exactly, you have to break the line. Not just stand in front of it. Games with spaces abstract continuous space. Now you're in front. Now you're beyond. When did you go past the line and "break the plane"? When you moved from the space in front of the line to the space behind the line.


Except in the case of Circus Maximus when the rules (based on interpretation) and the designer of the game states "the entire chariot must cross the line". Not the team. The entire Chariot. This is likely because there is no staggering of the squares at the finish line - all lanes are lined up equally. Therefore, you have to actually travel at least 2 squares beyond the finish line to achive the "cross the finish line" constraint.

Exceptions to every "rule".
 
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Bart de Groot
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markgravitygood wrote:
bdegroot wrote:
MrMorraine wrote:
I seem to be the only one here to think this, but I've always played it as the car only has to touch the line. So a car that enters any square that contains part of the finish line is declared to have crossed it.

Rather than try to interpret the rules at all, I simply applied the model of pretty much all racing, even athletics, where it is the first to break the plane of the finishing line, like in athletics, horse racing, dog racing and any other racing I have heard of.


Exactly, you have to break the line. Not just stand in front of it. Games with spaces abstract continuous space. Now you're in front. Now you're beyond. When did you go past the line and "break the plane"? When you moved from the space in front of the line to the space behind the line.


Except in the case of Circus Maximus when the rules (based on interpretation) and the designer of the game states "the entire chariot must cross the line". Not the team. The entire Chariot. This is likely because there is no staggering of the squares at the finish line - all lanes are lined up equally. Therefore, you have to actually travel at least 2 squares beyond the finish line to achive the "cross the finish line" constraint.

Exceptions to every "rule".


So Circus Maximus has an unconventional take on this. It clearly stipulates the exception to the general 'rule', so I don't see a problem there. Furthermore, it specifically says that crossing the line with the entire chariot means being in the space beyond the finish line, which supports my argument of what "cross the line" means.
 
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Actually you are moving from the space in front of the line into the space with your team that is 2 spaces beyond the line so that your two-space "chariot" is completely beyond the finish line. A Chariot is a team/Car combo that is two spaces long. I point that out only to let you know that is how it is in CM, as I do not know if you've played it before.

Definitely an exception.
 
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Rob Robinson
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If you look to either side of the chequered flag there is a black line that cuts through the centre of the flag itself, and also divides the central lane.

If you are in either of the outer lanes your car has crossed the line, if you are in the centre lane your car is not classed as crossing the line.
 
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Purple Paladin

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So, in addition: in our first game, a player crossed the line first, but then crashed 10-fold in the corner he was going so fast. He still wins? Other players don't get to take their turn to see if they go further past the line and win?

If true, it seems pretty anticlimactic, because the guy in front will go first, and so pass the line first, and win. You'll know who wins a turn+ in advance. snore
 
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Ryan Keane
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Purple Paladin wrote:
So, in addition: in our first game, a player crossed the line first, but then crashed 10-fold in the corner he was going so fast. He still wins? Other players don't get to take their turn to see if they go further past the line and win?

If true, it seems pretty anticlimactic, because the guy in front will go first, and so pass the line first, and win. You'll know who wins a turn+ in advance. snore


In Formula D, first to cross the line wins. It's not about who ends up farthest (like in Flamme Rouge) or not crashing after crossing the line. This is why you want to plan to come around the last corner in the front and in the highest gear possible.
 
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