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Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel! – Kursk 1943» Forums » Rules

Subject: question on uncovering hidden units rss

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Chris Stimpson
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OK, I couldn't wait - went straight from FF1 to FF8 - black steps of the night - so I could damage some tanks!

The challenge here is obvious - the panzers need to stand off to maximize the advantage of their longer ranges, but the victory conditions demand they get down and dirty with street fighting, close-quarter stuff.

Question, to do with revealing hidden units in the open. Rules, I think, say they uncover within two hexes. So on round two, my German reinforcements are zooming up the main road, infantry riding on the half-tracks. The vehicles can move three hexes on roads for 1AP. A KV1 was hiding in the open just past the road junction near the board 7/8 join. The vehicles (group moving in adjacent hexes) turned at the junction and moved north. This action started outside the 2-hex range, but by the time it was finished the vehicles were both adjacent to the tank. Tank then uncovered, and exercised itself by wiping out two half-tracks and one squad (the intermediate German action was an unsuccessful shot at the KV1 from the Tiger).

So the question is: should the KV1 have uncovered in the middle of the German action, when they first came within two hexes? Or does one wait until the action is complete, as I did, and which in this case brought them adjacent to the tank?
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Chris K.
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So far for all intends and purposes the revealing only ever happened at the end of an action. So I figure it should only happen once the unit is on the last hex.

It makes sense too, as you are more likely to miss something or mistakenly take it for a wreck when barrelling along at full speed.
 
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David desJardins
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10.0(4) seems clear that you reveal the hidden unit as soon as an enemy unit is close enough, even if it hasn't finished its action.

Why aren't you in covering terrain, though?
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John Fortune
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When you are playing a scenario solo with 'hidden' units - do you play it as if you don't know the units are there?

Or do you just move carefully knowing that units will start shooting at you as soon as you get too close? Do you shoot at hidden units before they are revealsed since you know where they are as a solo player?

Just curious.
 
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Jacovis
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DaviddesJ wrote:
10.0(4) seems clear that you reveal the hidden unit as soon as an enemy unit is close enough, even if it hasn't finished its action.

Why aren't you in covering terrain, though?


I agree with David, the rules are clear about exactly when.

Quote:
Units hidden in open terrain hexes stay hidden until an enemy unit
moves within 2 hexes of their hex and has a clear LOS.


Jacovis
 
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Chris Stimpson
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So presumably, the moment the tank uncovered, the Germans should have - and would have been better to have - stopped movement and been shot at from 2 hexes away rather than 1. (My assumption is that the uncovering is not an action, so the Soviets get to shoot first).

And the reason I hid in the open is that I had the other KV1 hidden in the woods nearby, which I thought was such an obvious place to hide that the Germans would go nowhere near it, and the 'in the open' tank would be where it wouldn't be expected and could get a flank shot in on the Tiger as it approached the village. As it happens, the entering half-tracks took a route which forced it to uncover.
 
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James Carlton
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Jacovis wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
10.0(4) seems clear that you reveal the hidden unit as soon as an enemy unit is close enough, even if it hasn't finished its action.

Why aren't you in covering terrain, though?


I agree with David, the rules are clear about exactly when.

Quote:
Units hidden in open terrain hexes stay hidden until an enemy unit
moves within 2 hexes of their hex and has a clear LOS.


Jacovis


There are a couple of firefights that have special rules for revealing hidden random units that only occurs at the END of a German turn. This might be the source of confusion.
 
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Chris Stimpson
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Thanks, guys. So, I went and backed out of the turns I'd taken, and replayed it with the half-tracks screeching to a halt at the moment of uncovering. The KV1 activated, but now things were different. He had no short-range targets so tried a shot on the Mark IV instead. Got a hit, which the Mark IV immediately took off with a card, and was spent.

It's worth getting this one right, because it makes a huge difference!
 
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zoran
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Just to be clear the german in the above scenario could continue his move after the revelation, from p11, 14.0 An entire multiple hex movement action must be completed before an opponent may react.

 
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Patrick Ward
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I haven't got a copy yet but can I just make sure I'm clear on this ..

the order of events would be

1. German starts to moves 1 hex.
2. Russian does nothing.
3. German moves 1 hex.
4. Russian reveals himself but can't fire because German not completed move)
5. German moves final hex.
6. Russian can fire.
 
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zoran
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I think that between points 4 and 5 the german could stop or continue his move or perhaps even change his intended direction if possible (for example wheeled vehicles need road to exploit their movement bonuses), although not reverse as bonus movements don't apply for reversing.

As a pre-emptative note, I don't think it's a problem that the rule sentence says must as this interaction between hidden units and vehicle movement isn't spelt out in the rules and anyway I think it means 'it's not the other guys turn until you're done'. In the designers notes on page 16 it says to use common sense in these situations and I think it's in the spirit of the game to allow the player to use the new knowledge to his best advantage.


edited to cover my ass
 
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James Palmer
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zemus wrote:
I think that between points 4 and 5 the german could stop or continue his move or perhaps even change his intended direction if possible (for example wheeled vehicles need road to exploit their movement bonuses), although not reverse as bonus movements don't apply for reversing.


This is correct. The only thing that could possibly interrupt movement is a mine, which would go off immediately. Provided the vehicle had not been immobilized or destroyed though, it could still continue its movement if it wanted, or stay where it is.
 
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