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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Who fires? rss

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nick P
United Kingdom
london
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Look, I'm not the brightest of wargamers and I seem to be struggling with a degree of uncertainty when it come the time to open fire...

If a leader activates and the troops open fire, can the leader use the fire order to trigger a fire group or can units A, B and C all fire away individually at different targets?

If there are machine guns present can they fire seperately, so, say, unit C fires its FPs, perhaps demoralising some German Sturm troops and then unit C's machine gun also fires and kills the Germans?

Can a leader trigger both the units around him for direct fire and a mortar?

Is any of this variable depending on whether it is fire or opportunity fire?

Sorry folks, but I seem to have made a right pig's ear of the fire rules and have lost any semblance of certainty here. I think I need someone to precis the fire rules simply so I can absorb them into my fragile eggshell mind.

Thanks in anticipation...
 
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nickp wrote:
Look, I'm not the brightest of wargamers and I seem to be struggling with a degree of uncertainty when it come the time to open fire...

If a leader activates and the troops open fire, can the leader use the fire order to trigger a fire group or can units A, B and C all fire away individually at different targets?


Fire is a unit activation, so you can create a firegroup or have a single unit open fire. If you have multiple fire orders you can have multiple units fire at different targets.

nickp wrote:

If there are machine guns present can they fire seperately, so, say, unit C fires its FPs, perhaps demoralising some German Sturm troops and then unit C's machine gun also fires and kills the Germans?


Yes. Although, adding the squad's +1 to the Attack Value is well worth it.

nickp wrote:

Can a leader trigger both the units around him for direct fire and a mortar?


Remember that it's a unit activation. So if you create a firegroup, it must follow the firegroup rules which would preclude a mortar attack if you're direct firing at a target.

nickp wrote:

Is any of this variable depending on whether it is fire or opportunity fire?


Fire is a unit activation. Just keep in mind the few options you've got when playing a fire command and you'll be all set.
 
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Cindy Nowak
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O20.3 Fire Attack Each piece that is activated to Fire may take one shot at any hex within both its Range and LOS, eitehr alone or as part of a Fire Group

O20.3.1 Fire Groups Two or more activated units/Weapons (or "pieces") may fire together by combining into a Fire Group. Every piece in a Fire Group must have both an unobstructed LOS to the target hex and be within Range of that hex for the Fire Attack Roll to be made. Furthermore, if units in a Fire Group occupy more than one hex, each such hex must be adjacent to at least one other (so that it forms a "chain" of adjacent firing units).

So you can either have a fire group or have each piece (including the machine gun) fire separately.

When you are opportunity firing - A33.2 Op Fire Procedure play a Fire Action from your and and activate one or more units to fire at that hex (exactly as if he were activating units for a Fire Order [O14.1 and O20.1]) (emphasis added); and/or
make one Fire Attack against that hex with any of his units that were activated for Op Fire at any point during this same move order.
 
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Richard Pardoe
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nickp wrote:
Is any of this variable depending on whether it is fire or opportunity fire?

Yes. The Fire Order can be played several ways ranging from a single fire group through a mix of fire groups & single shots to all individual shots. The OpFire Action must be as a single fire group into the hex just entered by the opponent. Subsequent OpFire shots can be a different mix of units as you wish, but still a single fire group in the hex just entered.

PS -
Keith - the terminator for quotes is [ /q ] not [/quote]
 
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M·ANTONIVS·M·F·M·N
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This topic reminds me if something that comes up in our games......who shoots first?

Op fire or assault fire?
(both players want to fire at the same time)
 
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Barry Ingram
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TonyClifton wrote:
This topic reminds me if something that comes up in our games......who shoots first?

Op fire or assault fire?
(both players want to fire at the same time)


Op Fire is only triggered by MP expenditure into a new hex, so it depends on whether the active player has moved or not. Remember you can assault fire before you start moving your units (assuming you have los and range to the intended target). If you want to move into a new hex before assault firing, then the inactive player can play Actions (like Op fire) first. See A24.2.
Same principle applies to popping smoke grenades before attracting possible Op Fire.
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Richard Pardoe
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If both players play cards at the same time, the inactive player takes their actions first (A24.2). So OpFire wins.

The way to Assault Fire before the OpFire is to play that action before moving a unit. Assault Fire just requires the unit(s) to be activated to move; while OpFire requires a unit to physically move first.
 
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Fritz Mulnar
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not Bavaria
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sorry if i did not understand that clear: It is NOT allowed, when a fire order is placed, to have the activated units shoot at DIFFERENT hexes?
 
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Harald Torvatn
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superjosef wrote:
sorry if i did not understand that clear: It is NOT allowed, when a fire order is placed, to have the activated units shoot at DIFFERENT hexes?


The short aswer is: It is allowed to fire at different hexes.

The long answer:

If they are activated for a fire order, you may fire the activated units (and their weapons, which automatically becomes activated when the unit is activatred) in ANY way you wish. If it is possible to form one big fire group, you may do so. Or you may fire each and every unit and weapon separately, at different hexes or against the same hex. Or you can make a firegroup of a few units, and fire the rest separately. Just keep firing, any way you wish, untill every activated unit and waepon you want to fire has fired.


If activated for a fire action (which can only happen during an enemy movement order), they can each fire once each time an enmy unit or stack enters a hex they can fire into, but only one attack may be made each time an enemy unit dos so, so you will naturally want the largest firegroups possible each time you fire.
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Fritz Mulnar
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thank you VERY much.
played cc:e this weekend with my girl first time. and has been a while since i played it with a friend of mine.
won scenario 1 with the russki!
 
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nick P
United Kingdom
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Thanks, folks. That has made things a lot clearer. Good gamin'.
 
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