Pete Martyn
United States
Guilford
VT
flag msg tools
EXCELSIOR!!!
badge
ZOMGALOMES!!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey there, Daniel Hodges, and fellow BGGers! I just received this game this weekend -- hot damn, but I am hooked. I've been having fantastic luck so far. By May 10th I had seen one day of overcast weather and THREE days of storms. If Poseidon himself wants to take responsibility for supply interdiction, I'm glad to have him on my side! Session report to follow as soon as I have a chance to catch my breath!

I've stumbled across a few things in the rules for which I'd love a little clarification. None, to the designer's credit, have hindered my enjoyment in the slightest -- I just want to make sure I'm getting the experience you intended, Mr. Hodges!

Bear with me here -- I've got several things to work through:

First, the Sequence of Play printed on the play aid has the Argentine Surface Group vs. British Submarine Combat in red. The Sequence in the rulebook does not, nor do the rules for that section mention any restrictions. Is it safe to assume that that was a printing error, and that Surface Groups may engage British subs prior to Operation Sutton?

Second, Rule section 13.10 (Enhanced/Degraded Search) omits any mention of d12s. Is this intentional, or can a search roll of d10 be degraded to a d12 (and vice versa, a d12 upgraded to a d10)?

Third, 10.3 states that any √Čtendard raid depletes the Argentine store of Exocet missiles by one. Is this true even if the raid is bounced? I know that the game doesn't distinguish between planes being destroyed and planes failing their missions, so is there any chance that the plane with the Exocet makes it back to base?

Fourth, Event 13 (Satellite) reads "For every turn [the event] remains on the board, the number of Argentine aircraft involved in each raid is increased by one, to a maximum of 4 aircraft." I think this means that until the event is resolved, each raid gets one extra aircraft. But it could also be read as a cumulative bonus: +1 aircraft the first turn, +2 the second, up to +4. Is that first interpretation the correct one, or do the raids grow more vicious the more opportunity for intel they accumulate?

Fifth, not really a rules question, but while I'm feeling inquisitive: is the flavor text for Event 34 an actual quote from the conflict? (for the record, the quote is, "...I thought we won the War of Independence, Senator...") I suspect it's not, and I might suggest revising it in any subsequent printings you may undertake. War of Independence is a more British usage -- a US Senator would be much more likely to refer to the Revolutionary War, which tends to be the common label for that conflict on this side of the pond.

Awesome work, all in all. I'm so glad I got my order in before it sold out! The gameplay is consistently gripping, and it's easily one of the most beautiful games in my collection. Cheers!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan Hodges
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Peter,

Glad you're enjoying it!

1) Yes, that's a printing error.
2) Yes, they can.
3) Yes, the Exocet is lost. Remember, being 'bounced' means destroyed Argentine aircraft are removed without the opportunity of firing back first, but this doesn't apply with Super E's because they have no air to air capability, (in the game).
4) Each raid gets one extra aircraft - it's not cumulative.
5) No, entirely made up by me - although obviously there were a number of senior US officials, (and Senators), who had reservations about their Government's support for the British. (Casper Weinberger wasn't one of them, and famously offered the British use of an aircraft carrier...that's an Event I'm sorely tempted to introduce in a 2'nd edition...)


Dan
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eamon Finnerty
United Kingdom
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
5) No, entirely made up by me - although obviously there were a number of senior US officials, (and Senators), who had reservations about their Government's support for the British. (Casper Weinberger wasn't one of them, and famously offered the British use of an aircraft carrier...that's an Event I'm sorely tempted to introduce in a 2'nd edition...)


He was awarded the Honorary Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the British Empire in 1988 in recognition for an "outstanding and invaluable" contribution to military cooperation between the UK and the US, particularly during the Falklands War of 1982.

Very well deserved.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt R
United States
DFW
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
nomae wrote:
Quote:
5) No, entirely made up by me - although obviously there were a number of senior US officials, (and Senators), who had reservations about their Government's support for the British. (Casper Weinberger wasn't one of them, and famously offered the British use of an aircraft carrier...that's an Event I'm sorely tempted to introduce in a 2'nd edition...)


He was awarded the Honorary Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the British Empire in 1988 in recognition for an "outstanding and invaluable" contribution to military cooperation between the UK and the US, particularly during the Falklands War of 1982.

Very well deserved.



Erm. I'd be okay with an extra aircraft carrier in the game... whistle
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wulf Corbett
Scotland
Shotts
Lanarkshire
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
"Do you mind if we borrow the Nimitz for a couple of weeks?"
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pete Martyn
United States
Guilford
VT
flag msg tools
EXCELSIOR!!!
badge
ZOMGALOMES!!!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dan Hodges wrote:
3) Yes, the Exocet is lost. Remember, being 'bounced' means destroyed Argentine aircraft are removed without the opportunity of firing back first, but this doesn't apply with Super E's because they have no air to air capability, (in the game).


For some reason I had this weird notion that two Harriers from the same flight repelled enemy air raids without even rolling a die. Not sure where I got that; it sure as heck wasn't from the rules!

Thanks for all the answers! Attempt number one ended with a few too many ships on the sea floor for the British public, but attempt two is under way....
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt R
United States
DFW
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, bouncing is only of use against Daggers and Mirages. I lost two Harriers in a couple of air-to-air fights in my last game when they were operating by themselves. It was frustrating because my Harrier screen was already weakened from a previous turn when I lost two surprise Harriers returning from a supply interdiction mission due to weather. Can't believe I rolled two d10-1's on a d10 and lost 2 out of 4 of them.... yuk
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gorka L Martinez Mezo
Spain
Malaga
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dan Hodges wrote:
3) Yes, the Exocet is lost. Remember, being 'bounced' means destroyed Argentine aircraft are removed without the opportunity of firing back first, but this doesn't apply with Super E's because they have no air to air capability, (in the game).

.... and in the real world. To carry Exocet the Super Etendard needs to have the gun chassis removed and replaced by a harmonization box so the airplane can "talk" to the missile. SuEs had no self defence capability against aerial interception.

Besides, if bounced the missile would have been jettisoned to allow the carrier to try escape back home. The missile is too heavy and draggy to be kept even being invaluable.....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Dodgin
Scotland
Edinburgh
Midlothian
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry, I don't understand the above comments about how you can only bounce Daggers and Mirages.

Can someone explain why this is the case? Surely you get to attack the other types of aircraft with your Harriers anyway?

Cheers.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AlexL
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
richdodgin wrote:
Sorry, I don't understand the above comments about how you can only bounce Daggers and Mirages.

Can someone explain why this is the case? Surely you get to attack the other types of aircraft with your Harriers anyway?

Cheers.

Daggers and Mirages are the only Argentine aircraft that get to fire back at the Harriers.; If you bounce a flight of Daggers or Mirages and score one or more hits, the hit planes don't get to shoot back (you bounce the Argentine planes if you attack with two Harriers from the same flight or have had Event 17 and gone with option (a))

Further edit: so you can shoot at Etendards and Canberras, but as they can't fire back bouncing them is irrelevant.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Dodgin
Scotland
Edinburgh
Midlothian
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry AlexL, I'm still not sure I've understood this...

The way I read the rules is that:

If you destroy any enemy aircraft, and a pair of Harriers from the same Flight were attacking, the destroyed craft are bounced and therefore do NOT get to fire back at you.

On the other hand, if you don't have a pair of Harriers from the same Flight attacking, the destroyed craft can fire back (if they are Daggers and Mirages - the other craft don't fire back).

Am I correct, or am I still missing the point?

Thanks.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
AlexL
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
richdodgin wrote:
Sorry AlexL, I'm still not sure I've understood this...

The way I read the rules is that:

If you destroy any enemy aircraft, and a pair of Harriers from the same Flight were attacking, the destroyed craft are bounced and therefore do NOT get to fire back at you.

On the other hand, if you don't have a pair of Harriers from the same Flight attacking, the destroyed craft can fire back (if they are Daggers and Mirages - the other craft don't fire back).

Am I correct, or am I still missing the point?

Thanks.


You're absolutely correct on all counts.

The comments upthread about bouncing Etendards were just needlessly confusing...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Dodgin
Scotland
Edinburgh
Midlothian
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cool. Cheers
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt R
United States
DFW
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The point I was making about bouncing Mirages and Daggers is because those are the only two types of planes that can fire back at Harriers - all other enemy aircraft are incapable of attacking the Harriers and if they do not get "destroyed" by the Harriers then they can fire their Exocet paylod (Etendards) or start their approach bombing run on the task force (i.e. all of the other types of planes but mostly the Canberras).

Remember that the point of "bouncing" enemy aircraft is to remove them from the fight before they get a chance to strike back. Normally, when enemy aircraft are not "bounced" then even if the Harriers are successful at "destroying" them, they still get a chance to attack the Harriers.

But the only enemy aircraft that are even capable of attacking the Sea Harriers are the enemy Mirages and Daggers anyway, thus the comments regarding why "bouncing" enemy aircraft is really only beneficial when trying to intercept Mirages or Daggers.

Make sense?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rich Dodgin
Scotland
Edinburgh
Midlothian
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I see what you mean. Thanks
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.