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Dominion: Seaside» Forums » General

Subject: Third revealed card - Tactician rss

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Jason Woolever
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http://www.riograndegames.com/news.html?id=22

Tactician
(5) Action - Duration

Discard your hand. If you discarded any cards this way, then at the start of your next turn, +5 Cards, +1 Buy, and +1 Action.


A new card type! Somewhat expected, I guess.


Thanks go to Jason Spears for posting this pic.
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John V
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This actually sounds really powerful. I wonder how the stamped coins come into play...
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Drew Spencer
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I knew there was gonna be another one tonight! One every evening until the release of Seaside!

This card seems powerful as all hell. Pick up cards like Festival or Market that grant money and actions, play Tactician last with at least one card left in your hand to discard and start your next turn with 10 cards, 2 actions, and 2 buys.
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Sutanto Joji
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will this be throne room-able?

if so, what's the effect..
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Sacha Spinks
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banyan wrote:
start your next turn with 10 cards, 2 actions, and 2 buys.


Too cool. arrrh
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Sacha Spinks
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joehn wrote:
will this be throne room-able?

if so, what's the effect..


I imagine not. Once you have discarded your hand, you won't have any cards to discard the second time.
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Donald X.
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Here's the FAQ:

Quote:
Tactician - You wait until the start of your next turn to draw the 5 extra cards; you don’t draw them at the end of the turn you played Tactician. Tactician stays out in front of you until the Clean-up phase of your next turn. Because you must discard at least one card in order to gain the bonuses from Tactician, it is not possible to Throne Room a Tactician to get + 10 cards, +2 Buys, and + 2 Actions. You will have to discard all of your cards with the first Tactician and you will not have cards left in your hand to trigger the card drawing or the extra Buy or the extra Action when you play Tactician for the second time.

The full rules on Duration cards are going to have to wait for when Jay posts the rulebook. The short version is, Duration cards stay out until the end of the last turn they do something, along with cards that Throned them and such; and you put them on a separate line of cards or something in order to remember whether you played them this turn or last turn.
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John V
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So the new Duration card type is orange. I wonder if there will be react - duration cards, or victory - duration cards. The permutations are starting to get interesting!
 
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Theodore
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Pfft! Only starting to?
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Dave Daley
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I'm trying to see how this isn't going to make it possible for people just to run through their entire deck every single time? Am I missing something here?

I realize that the frequency the card will come up is *MUCH* less than normal (as it sits in a pile, if you have 10 cards, it will come up 1 in 3 hands, instead of 1 in 2 hands etc), but still, you can increase the frequency of them in your hand.

The way I see it, 2 tacticians per 10 cards will allow you to draw your entire hand more often than not, WITH ACTIONS to keep going, and you play the other Tactician the start of the next hand. I don't see any card that is a "can't miss" as fun, which is why the Lab is normally not part of my setups. I know these cards are thoroughly playtested, so I am wondering if someone in the know can explain to me how this works in real games? Is it just an all-out deck-pulling-machine, or am I missing something?
 
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Drew Spencer
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elkabong wrote:
I'm trying to see how this isn't going to make it possible for people just to run through their entire deck every single time? Am I missing something here?

I realize that the frequency the card will come up is *MUCH* less than normal (as it sits in a pile, if you have 10 cards, it will come up 1 in 3 hands, instead of 1 in 2 hands etc), but still, you can increase the frequency of them in your hand.

The way I see it, 2 tacticians per 10 cards will allow you to draw your entire hand more often than not, WITH ACTIONS to keep going, and you play the other Tactician the start of the next hand. I don't see any card that is a "can't miss" as fun, which is why the Lab is normally not part of my setups. I know these cards are thoroughly playtested, so I am wondering if someone in the know can explain to me how this works in real games? Is it just an all-out deck-pulling-machine, or am I missing something?


I assume you mean your entire deck. You would need more card drawing to get your entire deck, provided it's 10 or fewer cards. Plus, keep in mind that turns when you play a Tactician are turns where you won't be spending ANY money not gained from Actions.

Unless you play a Black Market first. That would be out of control.
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elkabong wrote:
I'm trying to see how this isn't going to make it possible for people just to run through their entire deck every single time? Am I missing something here?

I realize that the frequency the card will come up is *MUCH* less than normal (as it sits in a pile, if you have 10 cards, it will come up 1 in 3 hands, instead of 1 in 2 hands etc), but still, you can increase the frequency of them in your hand.

The way I see it, 2 tacticians per 10 cards will allow you to draw your entire hand more often than not, WITH ACTIONS to keep going, and you play the other Tactician the start of the next hand. I don't see any card that is a "can't miss" as fun, which is why the Lab is normally not part of my setups. I know these cards are thoroughly playtested, so I am wondering if someone in the know can explain to me how this works in real games? Is it just an all-out deck-pulling-machine, or am I missing something?


Are you misreading the card? You play this and discard your hand. You don't get any benefits until your next turn. How are you then playing more than one tactician per turn? You don't get to "keep going" as you won't have any cards to do anything with.
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Bryan Graham
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elkabong wrote:
I'm trying to see how this isn't going to make it possible for people just to run through their entire deck every single time? Am I missing something here?

I realize that the frequency the card will come up is *MUCH* less than normal (as it sits in a pile, if you have 10 cards, it will come up 1 in 3 hands, instead of 1 in 2 hands etc), but still, you can increase the frequency of them in your hand.

The way I see it, 2 tacticians per 10 cards will allow you to draw your entire hand more often than not, WITH ACTIONS to keep going, and you play the other Tactician the start of the next hand. I don't see any card that is a "can't miss" as fun, which is why the Lab is normally not part of my setups. I know these cards are thoroughly playtested, so I am wondering if someone in the know can explain to me how this works in real games? Is it just an all-out deck-pulling-machine, or am I missing something?


You're not wholly wrong, but keep this in mind...the entire action phase comes before the entire buy phase. So if you discard your hand, you can't buy anything unless you played +coin cards already; the exception being if you played Black Market. So while (as mentioned above) this streams wonderfully with cards like festival, market, and even pawn, it does require a bit more dedicated strategy than a more standard "draw deck" which typically has the goal of getting a lot of money in your hand all at once.

The tactician deck would (I imagine) center around +coin cards and shun actual money cards.
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Dave Daley
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Ok.. I KNEW I was missing something. So you don't really have much of a buy, unless, as already mentioned, you have played a number of +coin cards that turn.

Thanks guys.
 
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Matthew M
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Right. You are essentially giving up this turn to take a double turn next time. That's a break even proposition on the face of it. The Tactician can help you get to 8 coins for a Province, but then it's just a more powerful card-drawer with a penalty attached (you need to skip a turn to use it).

The Tactician needs to either come to you when the rest of your hand is utter crap, or be comboed with a chain of +Action +Coin cards, or give you a very fortunate card draw on your next turn to be truly useful.

-MMM
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Richard Anderson
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Loving these new cards kiss

Drawing ten cards... does this mean a tight-fisted Tactician likes a Coppersmith?

Mr McHoo
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Paul King
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I wonder if there are special rules for Duration cards. Do you keep them on the table until their effect goes off ? Maybe there is even a limit on the number you can have active at a given time. It seems likely that Seaside includes mats for Duration cards, and they'd go pretty well with a limit.
 
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Hoo McHoo wrote:
Drawing ten cards... does this mean a tight-fisted Tactician likes a Coppersmith?


Bridge will also be favored when you start your turn with an extra Buy already in hand.
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Thomas Franke
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Any ideas (or even knowlegde) about how duration cards work together with Tribute, Ironworks and the like?

Just no effect, as it is the case with Curses?
 
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Suzan
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Maybe it's always a combination, like this one, action-duration.
 
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caesarbgg wrote:
Any ideas (or even knowlegde) about how duration cards work together with Tribute, Ironworks and the like?

Just no effect, as it is the case with Curses?

Well, this one says "Action - Duration", so gaining this one with a Bridged Ironworks or similar effect would give you +1 action, and if you reveal one with your Tribute, you'd get +2 actions. "Duration" by itself will not confer any bonus with either of these cards, of course.
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Thomas Franke
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NeonElephant wrote:
Well, this one says "Action - Duration", so gaining this one with a Bridged Ironworks or similar effect would give you +1 action, and if you reveal one with your Tribute, you'd get +2 actions. "Duration" by itself will not confer any bonus with either of these cards, of course.



Aaah, yes. Thank you.
I just realized, that Action-Duration is probably just a subtype of Action-card, just like Action-Attack or Action-Reaction. Somehow, I was misled by the different background, as Attack cards have the same colour as normal Action-cards (although the Action-Reaction are blue, of course).
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Branko K.
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So... Dominion gets hints from RftG. It was inevitable, I guess..

Love the color, btw!
 
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Benedetto Loffredo
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donaldx wrote:
Here's the FAQ:

Quote:
Tactician - You wait until the start of your next turn to draw the 5 extra cards; you don’t draw them at the end of the turn you played Tactician. Tactician stays out in front of you until the Clean-up phase of your next turn. Because you must discard at least one card in order to gain the bonuses from Tactician, it is not possible to Throne Room a Tactician to get + 10 cards, +2 Buys, and + 2 Actions. You will have to discard all of your cards with the first Tactician and you will not have cards left in your hand to trigger the card drawing or the extra Buy or the extra Action when you play Tactician for the second time.

The full rules on Duration cards are going to have to wait for when Jay posts the rulebook. The short version is, Duration cards stay out until the end of the last turn they do something, along with cards that Throned them and such; and you put them on a separate line of cards or something in order to remember whether you played them this turn or last turn.


Hi Donald.

If the Tactician is the only card I discard, I will still get the extras (cards, buy, action) next turn?
After I've discarded the Tactician what happens to my turn? It's ended? Or if I've some buys and money to spend I may spend them?
Let's imagine that my hand is an Estate, 2 Throne Room, a Militia and a Tactician.
I play the 2 Throne Room and then a Militia and Then a Tactitian.
What happens then?
 
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Matthew M
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Sportacus wrote:


If the Tactician is the only card I discard, I will still get the extras (cards, buy, action) next turn?


You can't discard Tactician if you play it as it is no longer in your hand. You need to have something in your hand after playing Tactician to get the benefit.

Quote:

After I've discarded the Tactician what happens to my turn? It's ended? Or if I've some buys and money to spend I may spend them?


The card doesn't say anything about your turn ending. You still have a buy, and can take a Copper or something more expensive if you have coins/discounts from other cards.

Quote:

Let's imagine that my hand is an Estate, 2 Throne Room, a Militia and a Tactician.
I play the 2 Throne Room and then a Militia and Then a Tactitian.
What happens then?


You discard the Estate. You then have 4 coins to spend due to the doubled Militia. Next turn you will get +5 cards, +1 Action, and +1 Buy.

-MMM
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