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Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Pegasus Expansion» Forums » Variants

Subject: CAG Title Variant rss

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Michael Perry
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It's always bugged me that there's three types of characters (not counting Support)... and only two of them get titles. Call it OCD, but, I was thinking about the occasional problem with Cylon Attack crisis clumping, and suddenly had an epiphany. And here it is...

--------------------------------------------------------
CAG Title Variant
Has not been playtested. Should work with or without Pegasus.

At the start of the game, give the CAG Title card and 1 Response Token to the first player on the succession list (see below). The CAG Title card (or "sheet?") reads:

Quote:
CAG

When a Crisis, Super Crisis, or Destination is revealed that would add Cylon ships to the board, gain 1 Response Token before any part of the effect is resolved. (Do NOT gain tokens for anything Launched from Basestars, or from Treachery cards, character abilities, or any effect that would only place Civilians and Vipers.)

Whenever the fleet Jumps and draws Destinations (ie, any Jump except the Return to New Caprica), discard half your Response Tokens (round up).

You may pilot a Viper. If your character may not normally pilot a Viper, then you may skip one of your normal draws during Receive Skills to draw one Piloting card.

Training Pays Off: when an unpiloted Viper is hit, may discard 1 Response Token and resolve as if Evasive Maneuvers was played.
Rush Repairs: when any game effect would place a Viper, and all Vipers are either deployed or damaged, may discard 2 Response Tokens to repair one Viper before placing.
If you have 2 or more Response Tokens, players able to pilot may use the Hangar Deck even when it is damaged, or when all Vipers are deployed or damaged (but not both). When they do so, you MUST discard 2 Response Tokens, and the Hangar Deck OR one Viper is repaired (but not both).
Get Us Out Of Here!: (Movement or Action) Discard 3 Response Tokens to move the Fleet marker forward by 1. Then, if its new position is a red square, move it forward 1 again.
You're Frakkin Kidding Me!: When a Cylon Attack is revealed, may discard 3 Response Tokens before any effects are resolved. Then, immediately gain 1 Response Token, and:
If it is a Super Crisis, return it to the player who played it. That player may now take any Action other than playing that particular Super Crisis. (They may still play it on their next turn!)
If it is a Crisis, reveal Crisis cards from the top of the deck until any non-Attack Crisis is revealed. Shuffle all revealed Attack cards (including the one drawn originally) into the Crisis deck, and then resolve the revealed non-Attack Crisis.

If the CAG is revealed as a Cylon, sent to the Brig, or becomes Admiral, give the title and all its Response Tokens to the highest player on the succession list who is not in the Brig AND is not President or Admiral. If nobody meets that description, and the President is not in the Brig, give it to the President. If the President is in the Brig, and the Admiral is not, give it to the Admiral. If all Human players are in the Brig, start at the top of this paragraph again, but the Brig no longer disqualifies anyone.

Cylon Leaders may never be the CAG.

Add the following text to the Admiral card:

Quote:
Action: Give the CAG title and all its Response Tokens to any character who is not President or Admiral.

Succession Order:
1. Lee "Apollo" Adama
2. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace
3. Louanne "Kat" Katraine
4. Sharon "Boomer" Valerii
5. Karl "Helo" Agathon
6. "Chief" Galen Tyrol
7. Helena Cain
8. William Adama
9. Saul Tigh
10. Anastasia "Dee" Dualla
11. Tom Zarek
12. Ellen Tigh
13. Gaius Baltar
14. Laura Roslin
--------------------------------------------------------
Optional: as well as everything above, add the following text to Caprica:

Quote:
OR
Action: if the CAG has no Response Tokens, reveal cards from the top of the Crisis deck until you reveal a Cylon Attack card, then shuffle all revealed cards into the deck except the Attack card, and resolve the Attack card.
--------------------------------------------------------

A few thoughts:

I think this variant would be a huge help to game balance, because I've seen a number of games where one side or the other had almost no chance of winning, simply because there were too many or not enough Attack cards. I know the game is always at the mercy of the cards, but the Attack card clumping is just the most obvious way for it to unbalance... and maybe it is more unbalanced than other potential problems. When you draw a Crisis and there are no ships on the board, the Cylons miss an opportunity to threaten resources; so it's maybe 2/3rds as difficult as a Crisis that comes up after one Attack card. On the other hand, if there are two Attack cards worth of ships, it's harder than the average Crisis. Even that situation is usually manageable for the Humans, but I've yet to see the Humans ever recover from three Attack cards between a single pair of Jumps.

There are a few characters whose 1-a-games are good countermeasures to this kind of thing (Apollo, Cain, etc), but they might not be in game, or might be Cylons. I would rather have a balancing factor that doesn't rely on certain characters. I've also found it very difficult for Humans to win if all the Pilots on the team defect, so if the CAG falls to a Military or Political leader, I added the option for a Helo-like roadblock to throw out there.

The optional rule for Caprica, I'm not quite as sure about, but it's the best thing I could come up with to deal with the no-Attack-cards problem. Hopefully the way Response Tokens are given out and discarded will mean that if the CAG uses their Tokens and damage is minimal, the Cylons can keep the pressure on; or if the CAG saves the tokens, the Humans will probably take more losses, but the Cylons can't heap too much more on top of that.

Also, I designed this so that an unrevealed Cylon as CAG has very little chance to sabotage, because the whole point is to keep the Crisis deck from destroying the Human side utterly. That's why Training Pays Off can't be used when a Viper was missed (unlike Evasive Maneuvers), and Rush Repairs is mandatory if there aren't any Vipers available and someone else triggers it. The only thing a traitorous CAG can do is try to waste Tokens in ways that aren't as helpful, but even then the Tokens are having some effect.
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Matt Davis
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I don't see how this would help with too few attack cards swinging things to the humans. This just seems like it makes things strictly easier on the humans. I know a lot of people see the game as too hard for the humans already, so this could help with that, but I don't see how it could help the Cylons.
 
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Sean McCarthy
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I think a CAG title is a really cool idea. I'd say your execution is a bit too complex though.
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Cameron McKenzie
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The optional rule allows the cylons to bring out an attack card if the CAG has no tokens, but it just seems like the CAG would always hang on to one token. I agree that this might unbalance the game. I think something simpler might work better. Maybe this:

Whenever a cylon attack crisis is drawn during a human's turn, the CAG gets a token.
Put one token on Caprica for every distance traveled.

If Caprica has more tokens than the CAG, a cylon may activate Caprica to discard a token and reveal cards until a cylon attack is revealed.

The CAG may discard two tokens to cancel a cylon attack crisis drawn during a human turn. No new crisis is drawn.


Something like that anyway. Doesn't have to be anything complicated.
 
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Matt Epp
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Agreed.

Cool idea, but way too complex for my tastes.

Something with only 1 or 2 effects is probably less thematic but still has the right flavour. Just a thought...

CAG (following your line of succession and the rules regarding Admiral title)

Whenever a Viper is placed on the board, you may instead pilot that Viper and place it in any area around Galactica (priority over Lee's ability).

Whenever the CAG is piloting and a basestar spawns raiders, it spawns 1 additional raider.
 
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Robert Jenkins
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I like the idea of a CAG title for the humans. But my main qualm with what's been said so far is that there seems to be very little power for the CAG if he is a Cylon. All of his abilities seem to help the humans. which, admittedly, that title would be a bit less sneaky than admiral or President. but still, there needs to be some sort of secret Authority that the CAG has that is similar to that of the Admiral and President in order for it to be a good game effect. This game is all about secrecy and paranoia, and nothing in the CAG's abilities seems to reflect that to me.
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Alexander Mercer
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How about making it a lot simpler.
CAG
Any time a viper is launched (whether from Command or placed as part of a Cylon Attack) the CAG may move each viper 1 square.
In addition the CAG may draw 1 additional piloting card during his draw phase by if he draws 1 less in another catagory.
Finally you may play any piloting card on an unmanned viper, if it moves/attacks as part of your action.
The CAG title reverts to the highest in line if the current CAG is Brigged, Executed or made Admiral, if there is no one in the line of succession who is not Brigged or Admiral, CAG first passes to anyone not in the brig, and then to the highest ranked brigged character. Reverting to the highest once an alternative is available.

I'm reluctant to allow it to do much more than this, I don't think there's any specific requirement for a CAG to fly (in the series there's a few occaisions when they give the briefing and then don't go out) and as a lot in this game it's slightly abstracted anyway.
This may not have as much impact as President or Admiral, but 2/3 abilities can be used to some extent by a Cylon (moving vipers in the wrong direction will normally be an obvious but irritating tactic, while piloting cards seem to be negative for about 75% of the skill checks and give you an excuse for not having other cards).
The middle ability only really applies to Maximum Firepower and Major Victory I think and is a nice effect, but not overpowering.
I've specifically denied CAG from being the same as admiral (except in extenuating circumstance as I think having 2 military leaders be the same is too much.

Of course it's difficult to make this work without having some crises' built off it as well.
 
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Benoit Guiot
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I like also the idea of the CAG title; despite that makes appollo a really powerfull role.

I think also the characteristics of both president and admiral title is that it is not straightforward to see if the players use it to for the bennefits of the human or the cylon.

I would suggest:

Quote:


Set asside all the cylon attack crisis cards from the crisis deck to make the "cylon attack" deck and replace the cylon attacks by generic "cylon attacking" card in the crisis deck.

CAG title gives you the "cylon attack" deck and hand; CAG start the game with one cylon attack card in hand and may spend an action to draw a cylon attack card from the deck.

Whenever a "cylon attacking" crisis card is revealled the CAG must choose the attack from the avalaible attack in his hand and resolve it. The CAG then draw a cylon attack card.



This way you might not know for sure if the cag has selected the less damaging attack just like you're not sure that the president has played the better quorum card and the admiral has played the better destination card.
 
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Chris J Davis
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I agree with the above opions - that the idea of a CAG title is a really good one, but that this implementation is far too needlessly complicated.

How about simply this:

Whenever unmanned vipers are activated, you decide how they move and attack.

Simple, and makes it a useful title for both humans and Cylons.

And have a standard Line of Succession for CAG, just like admiral and president - none of this "cannot be the admiral/cannot be the president" malarkey. The pilots will all be towards the top of the list anyway, just like all the military leaders are at the top of the list for admiral, and all the political leaders at the top of the list for president. If the CAG is sent to the Brig, the title moves to the next in line (just like the admiral title).

EDIT: Actually, I like the idea above as well of also adding:

You may draw a piloting card in place of one card from your skill set during your draw cards step.

Again, simple, and useful for both humans and Cylons.
 
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Dan Sulin
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bleached_lizard wrote:
EDIT: Actually, I like the idea above as well of also adding:

You may draw a piloting card in place of one card from your skill set during your draw cards step.

Again, simple, and useful for both humans and Cylons.


Yeah I like that variant better. Question with drawing pilot cards. Does this mean you think the CAG should always be allowed to pilot a Viper. I don't see a problem with that but the idea of Pradmiral CAG Gaius Baltar flying around in a Viper kicking ass makes me giggle a bit.
 
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Chris J Davis
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nilus wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
EDIT: Actually, I like the idea above as well of also adding:

You may draw a piloting card in place of one card from your skill set during your draw cards step.

Again, simple, and useful for both humans and Cylons.


Yeah I like that variant better. Question with drawing pilot cards. Does this mean you think the CAG should always be allowed to pilot a Viper. I don't see a problem with that but the idea of Pradmiral CAG Gaius Baltar flying around in a Viper kicking ass makes me giggle a bit.


I don't think so. You could say that the CAG - if it had to pass far enough down the line of succession - would have no piloting skills himself but could just give the briefings before each duty shift.
 
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Gerry Smit
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bleached_lizard wrote:

I don't think so. You could say that the CAG - if it had to pass far enough down the line of succession - would have no piloting skills himself but could just give the briefings before each duty shift.


Or their skills are rusty, seeing as how Adama and Tigh both flew. Helo's a RIO, and Tyrol probably has his "Taxi License", but I doubt either could fly combat. Flying a civilian in a straight line is a LOT different then avoiding being shot. Poorly trained pilots in BOTH World Wars were the typical fodder of the more experienced pilots, and hence how they became aces.

If you ARE going to let non-pilots fly, then they need to be -2 to hit (ala the new Trainee Attack Card).

Gerry
 
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Michael Perry
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I liked having the CAG able to fly, because whenever we lose all our Pilots as revealed Cylons, we seem to have a lot of trouble protecting the fleet. I've never seen Helo stay out of Sickbay very long with only one Piloting draw, but he can often delay the Raiders long enough to jump, which is all you really need.

I like how this idea has taken off without me. I did think it was pretty complicated, but I wanted to cover a couple of different bases, of things I've seen go wrong when too many Attacks are drawn. And, I just don't see a need for a CAG to be able to sabotage anything; the point of this was to mitigate the damage if there are too many Crises, and letting a Cylon CAG throw a wrench in the works just makes Attack clumping even more of a problem. I think even thematically, there's not a whole lot a CAG could have done to sabotage anything, beyond slacking off on their duties. Which they can still do.

The no-President and no-Admiral bit (and I agree, that part is pretty bizarre), I came up with to make it more likely that the CAG is human, but I'm not sure that it even does that. Same with the Admiral being able to move the CAG title at will (costing an action so it isn't free), which is also pretty accurate to the show, and much less convoluted.

I had a different idea for a CAG Response Deck, similar to the Quorum deck. But, I felt like combating randomness with a new kind of randomness was not the way to go about it. It might be worth trying, but the main point for me was that the CAG gains more power whenever an Attack is drawn, and if they don't use that power before the next Jump, they lose it (or at least, most of it). That way the humans have an extra tool to use against a string of Attacks, but it won't make much change to an already great game, if the deck stays more balanced.
 
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Zack S.
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bleached_lizard wrote:
If the CAG is sent to the Brig, the title moves to the next in line (just like the admiral title).

But Apollo was CAG while in the brig!
 
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Chris J Davis
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zackss wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
If the CAG is sent to the Brig, the title moves to the next in line (just like the admiral title).

But Apollo was CAG while in the brig!


Really? Was that a special circumstance, though? I'd say what makes most sense is for military titles to be passed down for those that are sent to the brig, while civilian titles stay with their current owner.
 
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Franklin Millar
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Interesting idea! Here's my take on it:

Quote:
CAG
When a cylon attack card is revealed, after resolving it, you may move to the Command location AND you may immediately discard one card randomly to take one action (cannot use "Executive Order").

The Brig precludes movement, of course.

For a human CAG, the most obvious use of the bonus action would be to deploy or move Vipers into position to protect Civvies or attack raiders, etc. Or in Apollo's case, move himself, I guess. But of course hidden Cylons could use the action for whatever they want.

Probably need to sleep on it and I'll come up with all sorts of reasons this is poorly balanced as-is, but it's a simple way to give the CAG a little extra excitement without adding tokens and stuff. The other titles aren't terribly complicated so I don't think this one should be, either.

Also, the pilots aren't really great for doing sneaky stuff as a hidden cylon, since their actions are pretty open. So in principle I'm not opposed to the CAG being a weak cylon title (although it's actually strong for Cylons in my version, I think).
 
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Franklin Millar
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nilus wrote:
bleached_lizard wrote:
EDIT: Actually, I like the idea above as well of also adding:

You may draw a piloting card in place of one card from your skill set during your draw cards step.

Again, simple, and useful for both humans and Cylons.


Yeah I like that variant better. Question with drawing pilot cards. Does this mean you think the CAG should always be allowed to pilot a Viper. I don't see a problem with that but the idea of Pradmiral CAG Gaius Baltar flying around in a Viper kicking ass makes me giggle a bit.
Baltar can already draw Piloting using his special ability, but it doesn't allow him to pilot a Viper. I think this would be similar.
 
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Franklin Millar
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Ok I already decided my version was too powerful so here's another:
Quote:
CAG
When a cylon attack crisis card is revealed, after resolving it, you may immediately move to the Command location and activate it OR if you are piloting a Viper you may immediately move or attack with it.

This is a little less powerful, but still allows the CAG to either maneuver unmanned vipers, or play with his own Viper.

Another version that I think would be pretty good is
Quote:
CAG
When a cylon attack crisis card is revealed, after resolving it, you may immediately move to the Command location. You may then activate the Command location, even from another location.

This is basically a limited version of Apollo's OPG, except that if you want you can position yourself in the Command location for future XOs and the like.
 
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Jason Beck
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bleached_lizard wrote:
I agree with the above opions - that the idea of a CAG title is a really good one, but that this implementation is far too needlessly complicated.

How about simply this:

Whenever unmanned vipers are activated, you decide how they move and attack.

Simple, and makes it a useful title for both humans and Cylons.

And have a standard Line of Succession for CAG, just like admiral and president - none of this "cannot be the admiral/cannot be the president" malarkey. The pilots will all be towards the top of the list anyway, just like all the military leaders are at the top of the list for admiral, and all the political leaders at the top of the list for president. If the CAG is sent to the Brig, the title moves to the next in line (just like the admiral title).

EDIT: Actually, I like the idea above as well of also adding:

You may draw a piloting card in place of one card from your skill set during your draw cards step.

Again, simple, and useful for both humans and Cylons.


I like these two options. They are simple, and, as said, potentially useful for both humans and Cylons.

I am not sure how I feel about sending the CAG to the brig and stripping the title as a consequence; as has been pointed out, Apollo retained the CAG title while in the brig (following his attempted mutiny against Tigh for arresting President Roslin).

I might suggest simply adding an ability to the Admiral card:

Action: You may take the CAG title from the current player and assign it to the next in line of succession.

This is more thematic, as it gives the Admiral control over the title, but doesn't give them too much control, as they can't just assign it to whomever they please.

May I also suggest

Quote:
1. Lee "Apollo" Adama
2. Kara "Starbuck" Thrace
3. Louanne "Kat" Katraine
4. Sharon "Boomer" Valerii
5. Karl "Helo" Agathon


Moving Helo up to spot 4, and Boomer down to 5. This would be more thematically appropriate, as Boomer was never CAG, but Helo was CAG on multiple occasions (and you might even argue that he should be CAG before Kat, but that might make him too good in terms of receiving titles).
 
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Franklin Millar
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bleached_lizard wrote:
I agree with the above opions - that the idea of a CAG title is a really good one, but that this implementation is far too needlessly complicated.

How about simply this:

Whenever unmanned vipers are activated, you decide how they move and attack.

Simple, and makes it a useful title for both humans and Cylons.

And have a standard Line of Succession for CAG, just like admiral and president - none of this "cannot be the admiral/cannot be the president" malarkey. The pilots will all be towards the top of the list anyway, just like all the military leaders are at the top of the list for admiral, and all the political leaders at the top of the list for president. If the CAG is sent to the Brig, the title moves to the next in line (just like the admiral title).

EDIT: Actually, I like the idea above as well of also adding:

You may draw a piloting card in place of one card from your skill set during your draw cards step.

Again, simple, and useful for both humans and Cylons.
Not keen on taking unmanned vipers away from the other players, but I like drawing pilot cards. As an alternative/addition, how about "may draw a piloting card whenever a cylon attack card appears", getting back to the original problem.
Colonial One wrote:

I might suggest simply adding an ability to the Admiral card:

Action: You may take the CAG title from the current player and assign it to the next in line of succession.

This is more thematic, as it gives the Admiral control over the title, but doesn't give them too much control, as they can't just assign it to whomever they please.

I like that!
 
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Franklin Millar
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Studying for exams is so boring... just one more.
Quote:
CAG
When a cylon attack crisis card is revealed, after resolving it, you may store it under this title card.

At the end of any player's turn with no jump prep, you may move two stored cards to the bottom of the crisis deck to move to and activate the Command location.

Action: Draw one Leadership or Piloting card.

The ideas here are to replicate the aforementioned "response tokens" using the cylon crises themselves. Also, card draw makes CAG the alternative of the Lab.
 
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Allan Cybulskie
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Here's a couple of ideas:

1) When unmanned Vipers are placed on the board, you decide where they are placed. So, Cylon attack cards place Vipers in various sectors. The CAG decides where they actually do get placed. This can be used by a Cylon and a human with equal effectiveness.

2) If you want something like the Admirals' nukes, you can use my "Magnum Launch" option: Once per game, you can launch all remaining, undamaged Vipers and place them, by pairs, in any sector. Any Viper that you cannot pair launches into one of the "launch sectors".
 
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Alexander Mercer
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After reading through this thread I think I'd probably go with:

May immediately activate unmanned vipers when they are placed
CAG gains ACTION: Activate 1 unmanned viper Gives a backup should Command be destroyed, or allows you to activate them while you're in space and you can't get anyone else to/don't trust anyone else to
May draw a piloting card instead of one other card during draw
CAG title goes to the next listed character if the current CAG is executed, the admiral gains: ACTION: The CAG title goes to the highest in line of succession excluding the current CAG & any characters in the brig. While a current character could retain CAG in the brig, I don't think a character should be able to gain it while in the brig. In addition it gives a non-executing way out if your top two in succession are suspected cylons...
 
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Chris J Davis
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If anyone were to create a CAG title card, what would be the icon/image used for it?
 
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bleached_lizard wrote:
If anyone were to create a CAG title card, what would be the icon/image used for it?


A shot of the pilot ready room, or of the white board they use to keep track of landings and whatnot, if you wanted to go the photo route?

Otherwise, you could use the rank insignia, like they do for the Admiral card, full pictures of which can be found on this page.
 
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