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Deadlands: The Battle for Slaughter Gulch» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules questions after a fun game rss

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Doug Bass
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We played a fun 3-player game the other day. I took the Agency because I like the tophat-and-derringer look, my friend John took the Mad Scientists (right up his alley), and my friend Todd played the Blessed because he wanted to try casting spells.

The first two turns went a little slowly as I explained the rules to them and we consulted the rulebook for questions I couldn't answer. After that, we got into a groove and really enjoyed ourselves. The Mad Scientists really started dominating, with the high Smarts attribute allowing them to recruit new dudes. Todd and I really should have spent more time shutting him down.

We played for about 3 hours (including rules explanation and a pizza break), and when I told my friends I needed to wrap it up, I think they were really disappointed. We'll be playing this again very soon. I definitely need the practice, because I'm going to be GM'ing a session at a local gaming convention in early November.

Anyway, we had some questions come up during the game that I am hoping to get answered, or at least get some feedback. Here they are:

1. The rules state Harrowed can still take wounds. Why is it important that they take wounds if they cannot be killed? Can/should they be healed?

2. Building benefit for Saloon says +2 to recruit. Is this recruit anywhere, or only at the Saloon? We assumed Saloon only.

3. Rules state you cannot shoot into a building. I know the Graveyard is not considered a building. What about Rail Station and the Mine?

4. How does dynamite work? Does the player who threw the dynamite need to make an agility roll to get out of the way, too? If the dynamite is thrown in the street, are the buildings on either side considered adjacent? If so, are the folks inside required to make an agility roll? The reason I ask is because rolling a 4 or 5 would make matters worse (you'd have to move onto the space with the dynamite), while anything else is a wash...

5. Can you use multiple weapons? We assumed yes.

6. The Flamethrower can damage three adjacent squares. Since it cannot shoot into buildings, what is meant by three adjacent squares? Three adjacent street squares? Can any number of players on the 3 adjacent squares be wounded?

7. When Mad Scientists develop gadgets, the rules say to use Smarts but the cards and the FAQ say to use Spirit. What makes sense to you and what do you use?

Thanks, dudes!

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Mik Svellov
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I expect Kerry to pop in with the right answers.
So regard my replies as an exercise for me to see how well *I* have understood the rules
Quote:
1. The rules state Harrowed can still take wounds. Why is it important that they take wounds if they cannot be killed? Can/should they be healed?

Getting wounded means losing your action that turn. It also means that you cannot run. If the undead couldn't be hurt, they would be too powerful.

Quote:
2. Building benefit for Saloon says +2 to recruit. Is this recruit anywhere, or only at the Saloon? We assumed Saloon only.

I have taken it to mean +2 anywhere, as the rules doesn't set a limitation.

Quote:
3. Rules state you cannot shoot into a building. I know the Graveyard is not considered a building. What about Rail Station and the Mine?

We have played that you cannot - with one exception!
The Mine may not be a building, but as the Mine itself would be even more difficult to hit people in from the outside, I would expect the advanced rules to make it even more difficult to hit people inside there than the wooden buildings.

The Railway does have a building, so obviously you cannot hit people there. The exception is the Trains themselves, which the rules clearly defines are legit targets.

Quote:
4. How does dynamite work?

Haven't used it yet.

Quote:
5. Can you use multiple weapons? We assumed yes.

I believe the rules say that you can only use one item at a time.
But one Dude can use one weapon, and another Dude another weapon.

Quote:
6. The Flamethrower can damage three adjacent squares. Since it cannot shoot into buildings, what is meant by three adjacent squares? Three adjacent street squares? Can any number of players on the 3 adjacent squares be wounded?

You cannot shoot into buildings yet, but you can shooot out!
So standing in abuilding you can spray all 3 street-spaces you can see.
I also assume that it can target 3 street-spaces behind each other.

Quote:
7. When Mad Scientists develop gadgets, the rules say to use Smarts but the cards and the FAQ say to use Spirit. What makes sense to you and what do you use?

Maybe I remember wrong, but isn't there some cards that use Smarts and others Spirit.
We have found it most practical to let the cards overrule the rules.
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Doug Bass
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Great Dane wrote:
Quote:
1. The rules state Harrowed can still take wounds. Why is it important that they take wounds if they cannot be killed? Can/should they be healed?

Getting wounded means losing your action that turn. It also means that you cannot run. If the undead couldn't be hurt, they would be too powerful.

Great, thanks. I missed those rules. I knew there had to be a reason, but I didn't know what it was.

Great Dane wrote:
Quote:
2. Building benefit for Saloon says +2 to recruit. Is this recruit anywhere, or only at the Saloon? We assumed Saloon only.

I have taken it to mean +2 anywhere, as the rules doesn't set a limitation.

That's what I'd like it to be, but I am trying to figure out how it would work with the rule that you don't get the building's benefits until it's time to take an action in that building. To me, that means this +2 recruit bonus applies only to the Saloon, or to the Saloon and every higher numbered building. Either that, or this bonus is not subject to the rule that benefits aren't awarded until the building action starts.

Great Dane wrote:
Quote:
3. Rules state you cannot shoot into a building. I know the Graveyard is not considered a building. What about Rail Station and the Mine?

We have played that you cannot - with one exception!
The Mine may not be a building, but as the Mine itself would be even more difficult to hit people in from the outside, I would expect the advanced rules to make it even more difficult to hit people inside there than the wooden buildings.

The Railway does have a building, so obviously you cannot hit people there. The exception is the Trains themselves, which the rules clearly defines are legit targets.

That's how we played, but when you say the Trains are legit targets, what do you mean? I know they can be robbed, but didn't think they could be shot at. Can you please clarify?

Great Dane wrote:
Quote:
5. Can you use multiple weapons? We assumed yes.

I believe the rules say that you can only use one item at a time.
But one Dude can use one weapon, and another Dude another weapon.

I finally found it: "You can only use one item card per roll, and you must choose which item you are using before you roll the dice". Didn't see anything about another dude not being able to use the same weapon on the same turn. Did you see that somewhere?

Great Dane wrote:
Quote:
6. The Flamethrower can damage three adjacent squares. Since it cannot shoot into buildings, what is meant by three adjacent squares? Three adjacent street squares? Can any number of players on the 3 adjacent squares be wounded?

You cannot shoot into buildings yet, but you can shooot out!
So standing in abuilding you can spray all 3 street-spaces you can see.
I also assume that it can target 3 street-spaces behind each other.

Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense!

Great Dane wrote:
Quote:
7. When Mad Scientists develop gadgets, the rules say to use Smarts but the cards and the FAQ say to use Spirit. What makes sense to you and what do you use?

Maybe I remember wrong, but isn't there some cards that use Smarts and others Spirit.
We have found it most practical to let the cards overrule the rules.

The reason I ask about this is because the spellcasters, Blessed and Shaman, have 3d6 and 4d6 to learn spells. For the Mad Scientist, if we are to use his Spirit (as is shown on the cards in the FAQ), he'll only have 2d6 but if you use Smarts (as shown in the rulebook), he'll have 3d6, which is more in line with the Blessed and Shaman abilities. Smarts also makes more sense to me as a skill needed to build a gadget, and this is how I want to play, unless it creates some kind of crazy imbalance. The rulebook even defines Smarts as "a must for building gadgets and recruiting townsfolk".

 
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Mik Svellov
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On +2 benefit for controlling the Saloon:
dougbass68 wrote:
That's what I'd like it to be, but I am trying to figure out how it would work with the rule that you don't get the building's benefits until it's time to take an action in that building. To me, that means this +2 recruit bonus applies only to the Saloon, or to the Saloon and every higher numbered building. Either that, or this bonus is not subject to the rule that benefits aren't awarded until the building action starts.

You are probably correct, since the Stable does say 'next turn' as the only card. Sou probably need to play the Recout action in the Saloon, just like you play the Shop action at the General Store.

On Rail Station:
Quote:
That's how we played, but when you say the Trains are legit targets, what do you mean? I know they can be robbed, but didn't think they could be shot at. Can you please clarify?

See rules on "Long Range Combat":
"You can even shoot at townsfolk as they are Getting off the train or coach." Whether correct or not, we have been shooting into the Rail Station or into the street space outside the Hotel - assuming these are two spaces where they arrive.

Using Weapons:
Quote:
I finally found it: "You can only use one item card per roll, and you must choose which item you are using before you roll the dice". Didn't see anything about another dude not being able to use the same weapon on the same turn. Did you see that somewhere?

See under 2Item Cards (Equipment)":
All of your Dudes have the item and can use it when they need to.
So in effect, you don't have a single Pistol, but one for each Character.

On Mad Scientists:
Quote:
Smarts also makes more sense to me as a skill needed to build a gadget, and this is how I want to play, unless it creates some kind of crazy imbalance. The rulebook even defines Smarts as "a must for building gadgets and recruiting townsfolk".

I agree - but until official errata says otherwise will I use the cards as printed. See below
 
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Dan Has
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Question 7 was answered in the FAQ:
Quote:
The rules state that you roll Smarts for gadgets to develop but some cards state to roll Spirit. Which one is it?
Go by the cards.
Source: Kerry August 20, 2009
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Doug Bass
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BeanThere wrote:
Question 7 was answered in the FAQ:
Quote:
The rules state that you roll Smarts for gadgets to develop but some cards state to roll Spirit. Which one is it?
Go by the cards.
Source: Kerry August 20, 2009

Yes, I saw the FAQ, and I said so. I fully realize that not everyone will agree with me on this, but I intend to use Smarts for the reasons I stated, until someone can explain a good reason why I shouldn't (other than because the FAQ says so). I would love to hear a reason. Using Smarts agrees with the rulebook, in more than one place, and is more logical. What I was trying to get was a sense of whether others are following the FAQ or following the rulebook.

 
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Doug Bass
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Great Dane wrote:
Quote:
That's how we played, but when you say the Trains are legit targets, what do you mean? I know they can be robbed, but didn't think they could be shot at. Can you please clarify?

See rules on "Long Range Combat":
"You can even shoot at townsfolk as they are Getting off the train or coach." Whether correct or not, we have been shooting into the Rail Station or into the street space outside the Hotel - assuming these are two spaces where they arrive.

Thanks for the reference. Yes, I agree this rule implies that you can shoot into the Railroad space from the street, as otherwise what is the point of calling it long range combat?

Great Dane wrote:
Quote:
I finally found it: "You can only use one item card per roll, and you must choose which item you are using before you roll the dice". Didn't see anything about another dude not being able to use the same weapon on the same turn. Did you see that somewhere?

See under 2Item Cards (Equipment)":
All of your Dudes have the item and can use it when they need to.
So in effect, you don't have a single Pistol, but one for each Character.

Yes, I saw that rule. I think I misinterpreted your original reply. I thought you were suggesting that an item could not be used more than once in a turn, by different dudes. Thanks.

 
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Dan Has
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dougbass68 wrote:

Yes, I saw the FAQ, and I said so. I fully realize that not everyone will agree with me on this, but I intend to use Smarts for the reasons I stated, until someone can explain a good reason why I shouldn't (other than because the FAQ says so). I would love to hear a reason. Using Smarts agrees with the rulebook, in more than one place, and is more logical. What I was trying to get was a sense of whether others are following the FAQ or following the rulebook.

Oops, sorry. I guess I read your question wrong when I glossed over it. I prefer to use what the cards say, just because that's what the FAQ says and is how the designer intended it. At least I hope that's how it was intended. A lot of games will have a little blurb that says something like: "Sometimes cards will contradict the written rules, in those cases go by the cards." Or something like that.
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Mik Svellov
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BeanThere wrote:
I prefer to use what the cards say, just because that's what the FAQ says and is how the designer intended it. At least I hope that's how it was intended. A lot of games will have a little blurb that says something like: "Sometimes cards will contradict the written rules, in those cases go by the cards." Or something like that.

Not only that, but if a second edition is ever made, the updated rules would very likely adress the problems answered by the FAQ.

Thanks to the internet, rules are no longer carved in stone. They can be updated as often as the designer/publisher feels it is necessary.

People may obviously prefer to play with their own house rules, which is okay by me - as long as they realise they are playing a variant.
 
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Doug Bass
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BeanThere wrote:
At least I hope that's how it was intended.

I detect a hint of uncertainty in this statement, which is exactly how I have felt. I would feel a lot better about it if there was an errata (not a FAQ) that redefined Smarts to exclude building gadgets, redefined Spirit to include building gadgets, corrected the description of the Gadget action to use a Spirit roll instead of a Smarts roll, and fixed the description of Gadget cards to use a Spirit roll instead of a Smarts roll. Furthermore, the wording of the phrase "Go with the cards" just doesn't instill a lot of confidence in my mind. I truly believe the cards were printed wrong.

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Kai Wootton
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dougbass68 wrote:
2. Building benefit for Saloon says +2 to recruit. Is this recruit anywhere, or only at the Saloon? We assumed Saloon only.


I have just noticed that the Saloons special ability is clarified on the faction screens (the ones you use to hide your action placement).

On the screen it actually confirms "at this location" so its officially the Saloon only (as we all suspected!!)
 
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Doug Bass
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Crichton wrote:
I have just noticed that the Saloons special ability is clarified on the faction screens (the ones you use to hide your action placement).

On the screen it actually confirms "at this location" so its officially the Saloon only (as we all suspected!!)

Thanks, Kai!

 
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