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Subject: Win with the most useless card... (or so he thought!) rss

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Got together with the guys the other night for a good session of Dominion. We were playing with both the base game and Intrigue.

Before starting we chit chatted some, talking about the new set and what card we liked and disliked, especially from the old set... my one friend despises the money lender and informed everyone that it was the worst card in the base set.

The one game we played drew 3 attack cards (and thankfully a moat)!

Common Pool:

Witch
Throne Room
Adventurer
Mine
Saboteur
Workshop
Militia
Moat
Smithy
Moneylender


Taking 2nd turn, I drew 4 coin worth of copper and examined the possible cards. My friend disdainfully regarded the Money Lender 'bah, one of the worst cards ever' as my hand hovered over the card. 'I dare you to take it, just to prove me wrong' he laughed. Of course I couldn't let this pass and picked up a money lender.. and then a second one.

My disdainful friend focused on Militias, Throne rooms and workshop cards, quickly grabbing most the moats with throning the workshops. My other friend managed to pick up a Mine and a few militias. Both found it exceedingly difficult to hit the magic number of 5 early in the game. Both picked up sabatours way too late to really have an impact upon me.

For my part, I quickly eliminated all the copper from my deck refining it into several Gold and Silver cards all the while keeping my deck size small with the use of my money lender goodness. I picked up a throne card to assist with this as well, one turn doing a double money lender to drop two coppers for a gold. Throwing in a smithy or two and some moats to protect my gains, I quickly raced ahead. I picked up most of Provinces, having 7 of them before they even had one of them! They managed to force the loss of one my gold cards before I ended game.

Fun runaway game to rub the glory of money lending in my friends face



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1603-1714
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Re: Win with the most useless card...
Yes, Moneylender can be quite good. I must admit, in my first few games I didn't think it was worthwhile at all, but when I tried it out, it worked very well, especially when I could buy Gold after trashing a Copper.

This statement from the session report was a bit confusing:
mwdalrymple wrote:
I picked up a throne card to assist with this as well, one turn doing a double money lender to drop two silver for a gold.

You can only trash Coppers with the Moneylender, not Silver. I'm assuming this was just a typo. Still, a good card and it looks like you showed that to your friends. I think most of the cards in Dominion and its expansions can be helpful if use properly, eventhough some don't appear to be at first glance.
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Re: Win with the most useless card...
ha ha, thanks for the catch. That is what I had intended by that
 
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Richard Watney
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Re: Win with the most useless card...
i consider it one of the better cards...

similar power to baron. it may seem iffy, but its giving you money based on cards in your deck which you have plenty of. moneylender gives you less money, but has the added benefit of trashing the copper. at the very least, it will give you a silver, and can combine to give you better stuff.

my question is how is this a bad card?
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Jordan
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Re: Win with the most useless card...
New players don't like the idea of trashing cards from your deck, as most of them equate "buying cards = win".
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Branko K.
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Re: Win with the most useless card...
mwdalrymple wrote:

Before starting we chit chatted some, talking about the new set and what card we liked and disliked, especially from the old set... my one friend despises the money lender and informed everyone that it was the worst card in the base set.


And he played, what, two games of Dominion in his life?

Moneylender is one of the best cards in vanilla Dominion, and usually a must 4-cost buy. Mid-to-late game it sucks because the chances of pulling it together with Copper aren't so good anymore but early moneylending game is very powerful.

You might consider changing your title because hardly anyone will easily ignore it and concentrate on the actual session report...

Edit: Although, this

mwdalrymple wrote:
Of course I couldn't let this pass and picked up a money lender.. and then a second one.


was a bit silly. One moneylender is more then enough. Even if you get lucky and get them spreaded around in your next two hands, sooner or later they will become dead weights. You only have 7 Coppers in your entire deck, after all. Get just one Moneylender, use him as much as you can and then, if able, get rid off it.
 
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Re: Win with the most useless card...
it wasn't my friends first play by far, but he still really dislikes the card.. i guess there are other strategies/cards that he would prefer to get first.

And yes, I felt that the money lender was a great card. That is why I picked it up.
 
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Branko K.
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Some of my friends still wonder why I often buy the Chancellor, always attributing my win to some other strategy I used...
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Micah Liebert
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I've been trying to figure out how to use chancellor effectively but to no avail. I'm very curious how you use it.
 
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Branko K.
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Simply, you just do.

For the better part of the game you are improving your deck by adding good cards to it. Chancellor simply gives you a chance to get those cards in your hand sooner.

For instance, let's say you got a "1,1,2,Chancellor" in your first hand after reshuffle, and it's an early game and noone landed a Gold yet. You play Chancellor, buy Gold and put your entire deck in the discard pile. You now have a chance to get that Gold in your very next hand, without waiting to go through the entire draw pile first!

Chancellor is very situational, and sometimes will not do much. But on average, it's a much better card then people give it credit for. Just as newbies think "trashing is bad", they also often fail to see any benefit in reshuffling, and would even prefer to postpone it so they can rest their hands a bit.
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Jeff Wolfe
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baba44713 wrote:
Moneylender is one of the best cards in vanilla Dominion, and usually a must 4-cost buy. Mid-to-late game it sucks because the chances of pulling it together with Copper aren't so good anymore but early moneylending game is very powerful.

This seems to contradict itself. If the card is only good early, why not buy something that is good through the entire game? It's not always good to jump-start your deck and be left with a dead card for the rest of the game.

Quote:
was a bit silly. One moneylender is more then enough. Even if you get lucky and get them spreaded around in your next two hands, sooner or later they will become dead weights. You only have 7 Coppers in your entire deck, after all. Get just one Moneylender, use him as much as you can and then, if able, get rid off it.

You can buy more Copper to feed your Moneylenders. In practice, this requires you to have a +Buy card in your deck (or more than one).

Moneylender is a card that I don't buy very often, but it can be very good in the right circumstances.
 
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Branko K.
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jeffwolfe wrote:
baba44713 wrote:
Moneylender is one of the best cards in vanilla Dominion, and usually a must 4-cost buy. Mid-to-late game it sucks because the chances of pulling it together with Copper aren't so good anymore but early moneylending game is very powerful.

This seems to contradict itself. If the card is only good early, why not buy something that is good through the entire game? It's not always good to jump-start your deck and be left with a dead card for the rest of the game.


Well I think weeding out Copper is a good think by itself, and the Coins boost will most commonly net you a good card (e.g. a Gold) much sooner then you would be able to otherwise, so it also by far offsets the eventual useleness of Moneylender.

But of course you always have to look the whole picture. I just think that on average, Moneylender is a good investment, regardless of the fact he is not good "for the entire game".
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Chris Ferejohn
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Yeah, the Chancellor is good as long as your deck promises to get better after every shuffle. This is usually the case, but there are exceptions (Garden decks, card sets where there will be curses and no ways to deal with them).
 
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Chris Ferejohn
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This brings up a general strategy point. People are quick to fall in love with cards that can result in huge turns. When you chain a bunch of labs/markets/festivals/villages and end up being able to buy a province and a gold in one turn, well obviously that is good. Thinning and reshuffling your deck won't lead to these kinds of great turns (well, unless combined with labs/markets/et al), but they will make your "average" turn much better. It is easy for an opponent who is still learning to dismiss this as luck, since he can't "see" how you did it (as he can when there are a mess of cards played on a given turn).
 
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Steven Metzger
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My friends (they are a couple) own the Dominion copy that we play. She had a 2-buy, $7 turn early and took a Festival and nothing else. Chapels were in play.

She lost badly.
 
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