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Struggle of Empires» Forums » Rules

Subject: A Question of Adjacency rss

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Chris Linneman
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Okay, I just bought this game and am excited to try it but the map is really ambiguous:



"Mediterranean" looks like just Italy--is it meant to cover the Mediterranean Sea, Italy, Corsica, etc.? Is it adjacent to Spain? Ottoman Empire? How about "Baltic"? Is it adjacent to Britain? Normally I would expect land areas to adjoin only areas to which they are connected by land but the use of the term "Mediterranean" to describe a land area baffles me.

Are there even sea areas in the game? The rules seem to try to only refer to areas as areas and doesn't distinguish between land and sea areas.
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Łukasz
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I believe most of your questions are covered in the FAQ.

The rulebook is a disaster. It's written in a 'well, here is the map, you have some units for which you usually will pay money, there are armies and you can battle. Oh, and there are special tiles too. Go on and play.' manner.
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Chris Linneman
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Wow. I completely would not have expected such idiosyncratic rulings. So Spain is adjacent to Mediterranean (which seems to be the only area that is actually a Sea) but Mediterranean is not adjacent to Ottoman Empire? Yikes what a disaster. I guess it is Warfrog after all...

Thank you for the link but I almost want a second opinion. I only ask because the ruling seems so arbitrary.
 
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Chris Linneman
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I see there is a rules re-write in the files section that supports this ruling. It's too bad Martin didn't bother to include what is adjacent to what in the original rules (actually he does mention in passing that Britain is adjacent to German States but nothing about Spain and Mediterranean).
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alan beaumont
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You didn't ought to write a rules set like what they did

You are going to have a heart attack when you try to interpret the combat rules, some of them as written are outright lies! Download the rewritten ones and the FAQ.
To answer your question The Mediterranean is adjacent to pretty much everything, except Britain, Prussia, the Baltic and Central Europe.
(There is an adjacency map in the files, which will make sense once you get the movement rules down, but it seems to think Russia isn't adjacent to the Baltic, so one of us is playing a variant)

Stick with it, this is a great game.
 
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Łukasz
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Quote:

Quote:
Spain is adjacent to the Mediterranean (1)
France is adjacent to the Mediterranean & German States (2)
Britain is adjacent to the German States (1)
United Provinces are adjacent to the German States (1)
Prussia is adjacent to the Baltic, German States & Central Europe (3)
Russia is adjacent to the Baltic, Central Europe & Ottoman Empire (3)
Austria is adjacent to the German States, Central Europe, Ottoman Empire & Mediterranean (4)


But as far as I remember, Mediterranean is not only sea on the board if by the 'sea' we understand an area which ships can occupy. I recall you could have ships on every colony (i.e. the areas behind 'rope' lines). So you could sail your ships to Africa and East Indies, FWIW.
 
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Philip Thomas
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You can have ships in the Baltic too.

Having Ships in the Mediterranean makes you adjacent to the Ottoman Empire...
 
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alan beaumont
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Hello again
QBert80 wrote:
Wow. I completely would not have expected such idiosyncratic rulings.
I actually asked Martin Wallace face to face about the Naval Combat rules.

He had ruled that the statement 'A player only has the option to fight if he has at least one naval unit in the area.' actually means 'A player has the option to fight even if he doesn't have a naval unit in the area, but can persuade an allied player navy to participate.' (Bizarrely alliance tiles will not do).

Martin's opening gambit was 'You have to understand that the rules to Struggle of Empires exist in many forms' which was a bit too zen for me. I think he retired from writing his own rules shortly afterwards.

PS. Our group ignored the ruling; restricting players to naval combat only where their own navies are present knocks about 20 minutes negotiation out of the game and is more 'realistic' in a game where diplomatic messages could take months to arrive, but a naval engagement would be done and dusted in hours. There are also various paradox problems in a system where agreements aren't enforceable.
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Chris Linneman
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Okay, so is Mediterranean adjacent to Ottoman Empire then? According to the FAQ there is something called "Mediterranean Sea" between them.

Jesus, would it have killed them to put boundaries on this map? Y'know, like the ones separating N. America, Caribbean and S. America, those are nicely done. Looks like they got lazy when they got to Europe cry
 
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alan beaumont
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Greetings Grasshopper
QBert80 wrote:
...would it have killed them to put boundaries on this map? Y'know, like the ones separating N. America, Caribbean and S. America, those are nicely done. Looks like they got lazy when they got to Europe cry
'You have to understand that the rules to Struggle of Empires exist in many forms'

Ommmmmmmm.
 
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Łukasz
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misteralan wrote:
'You have to understand that the rules to Struggle of Empires exist in many forms'


I would add it as my tagline if I had one.
 
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-=[Ran Over]=-
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I think Europe can be summarized like this:

* There are only two areas in Europe that are partly water (meaning you can have ships there): the Baltic and the Mediterranean.

* The Baltic is not adjacent to the German States (Denmark/Scandinavia are not in play).

* Great Britain is adjacent to the German States.

* Spain is adjacent to the Mediterranean.

* Ships in the Mediterranean are simultaneously in the Ottoman Empire.
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Chris Linneman
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Here is how I understand it:

The Mediterranean encompasses all of the areas between Spain and the Ottoman Empire. Thus, it is adjacent to both, and the Ottoman Empire has no coastline (i.e., you cannot build navies there) because its coastline is actually part of the Mediterranean. This means ships in the Mediterranean act as if they were simultaneously in the Ottoman Empire. What a mouthful.
 
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