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Hellenes: Campaigns of the Peloponnesian War» Forums » Rules

Subject: Fleets on land, mostly rss

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Steffan O'Sullivan
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We played our first incomplete game today. Had fun, though we got a lot of rules wrong and both made some boneheaded moves. Appropriately, it ended in a draw when my opponent had to leave after turn five (431 Scenario).

We *think* we played the following correctly, but would like verification, please!

1) Can fleets besiege (and siege assault) an inland city the turn after they land on the coast? (We said yes, though one of us was very doubtful, since defending fleets can't fortify such a city.)

2) When fleets panic and retreat to sea, if there are still unfired land units more agile than the fleet, can they perform pursuit fire at the fleet, or is the fleet now out at sea and so can't be hit? (We said yes they can fire; they're hitting them on the beaches before than can be fully launched.)

Thanks!
 
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Chris Montgomery
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sos1 wrote:
We played our first incomplete game today. Had fun, though we got a lot of rules wrong and both made some boneheaded moves. Appropriately, it ended in a draw when my opponent had to leave after turn five (431 Scenario).

We *think* we played the following correctly, but would like verification, please!

1) Can fleets besiege (and siege assault) an inland city the turn after they land on the coast? (We said yes, though one of us was very doubtful, since defending fleets can't fortify such a city.)


Yes. The sidebar in the rules talks about how fleets would keep about half their force at the beach to protect the fleet, and the other half of the soldiers would head inland. So, they can besiege a coastal territory whether or not that territory is a port.

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2) When fleets panic and retreat to sea, if there are still unfired land units more agile than the fleet, can they perform pursuit fire at the fleet, or is the fleet now out at sea and so can't be hit? (We said yes they can fire; they're hitting them on the beaches before than can be fully launched.)


You played this right... unless I got the rules wrong (as commonly happens).

Cheers.
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Craig Besinque
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Right in both cases.

We don't allow fleets to fortify in inland (non-port) Cities because the triremes are the expensive part and they would be abandoned on the coast if their crews fortified in the city.

Well done again, Chris! Thanks for jumping in.

Craig
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Carlos S. Olivares Pérez
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Just to confirm:
Moving a fleet from a land area to an adjacent land area (both coastal) is a land movement, fleet do not need to enter the sea area
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Chris Montgomery
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proyecto_mgj wrote:
Just to confirm:
Moving a fleet from a land area to an adjacent land area (both coastal) is a land movement, fleet do not need to enter the sea area


That's correct.
 
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Tom Jones
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cmontgo2 wrote:
proyecto_mgj wrote:
Just to confirm:
Moving a fleet from a land area to an adjacent land area (both coastal) is a land movement, fleet do not need to enter the sea area


That's correct.


What is this supposed to model? Is this a case of literally moving ships on land? Were there any historical examples of ships being moved on land *along* a coast? I understand that ships could be moved across a narrow isthmus.

I'm trying to imagine what else this might represent. Are these a series of occasional, brief, sea moves along the coast, ducking back on land before the large, offshore enemy fleet can engage?

 
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Chris Montgomery
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tajones42 wrote:
cmontgo2 wrote:
proyecto_mgj wrote:
Just to confirm:
Moving a fleet from a land area to an adjacent land area (both coastal) is a land movement, fleet do not need to enter the sea area


That's correct.


What is this supposed to model? Is this a case of literally moving ships on land? Were there any historical examples of ships being moved on land *along* a coast? I understand that ships could be moved across a narrow isthmus.

I'm trying to imagine what else this might represent. Are these a series of occasional, brief, sea moves along the coast, ducking back on land before the large, offshore enemy fleet can engage?



It is supposed to model the fleet sailing along the coast to the next adjacent region without entering the "open ocean." The rule requires you to stop when you enter a land space, so you can only move 1 adjacent land area if you choose to move directly from one coastal land area to the next.

Cheers.

Chris
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Tom Jones
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cmontgo2 wrote:
It is supposed to model the fleet sailing along the coast to the next adjacent region without entering the "open ocean." The rule requires you to stop when you enter a land space, so you can only move 1 adjacent land area if you choose to move directly from one coastal land area to the next.


Perhaps my vague impression of ancient Greek naval movement is wrong. I'd thought that most naval movement was "along the coast" anyway. I'd interpreted the Deep Sea boundaries as reflecting distance from land (ie completely out of visual contact), rather than literal depth. Given this mental model of normally sailing within sight of the coast, I was trying to justify a change in "coast hugging" naval movement from 5 regions to 1.

Perhaps this decrease in movement is a minor artifact of a game abstraction. Not a big problem, but I can stop trying to rationalize it.
 
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Chris Montgomery
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tajones42 wrote:
cmontgo2 wrote:
It is supposed to model the fleet sailing along the coast to the next adjacent region without entering the "open ocean." The rule requires you to stop when you enter a land space, so you can only move 1 adjacent land area if you choose to move directly from one coastal land area to the next.


Perhaps my vague impression of ancient Greek naval movement is wrong. I'd thought that most naval movement was "along the coast" anyway. I'd interpreted the Deep Sea boundaries as reflecting distance from land (ie completely out of visual contact), rather than literal depth. Given this mental model of normally sailing within sight of the coast, I was trying to justify a change in "coast hugging" naval movement from 5 regions to 1.

Perhaps this decrease in movement is a minor artifact of a game abstraction. Not a big problem, but I can stop trying to rationalize it.


Right. Most naval movement WAS along the coast, but not necessarily w/in sight of the land. Small syntax issue is all. We're saying the same thing - "sailing along the coast" and "staying within sight of the land".

Obviously, staying within sight of the land and following along the coastline takes longer. That's all I meant.

Cheers.

Chris
 
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Clayton Capra
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So if a fleet moves along a coast from one land location to an adjacent one and their is an enemy there are they engaging from sea to land and rule 6.6 sea landings happens (defending units get a free atack)?
 
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C Sandifer
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triplec wrote:
So if a fleet moves along a coast from one land location to an adjacent one and their is an enemy there are they engaging from sea to land and rule 6.6 sea landings happens (defending units get a free atack)?


I wouldn't think so. At that moment, the "fleet" isn't a fleet unit anymore - it's a detached land unit. So no sea landing.
 
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